No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

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LAWBC
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No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by LAWBC » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:39 pm

I have a townhouse (new build) with no heat detector in the garage.
With living space directly above I am wondering why the building code allows for omitting a heat detector in the garage with living spaces above it
There are smoke CO and smoke detectors on the second and third floors hard wire and with annunciation capable .
My question is, What happens if a fire breaks out in the garage and blows through the garage wall into the descending stairwell, blocking the only way out. How can the building code allow for no heat detectors in the garage, which would give enough warning time to evacuate the building in case of a fire.
The garage has its own entrance door, so it can be sublet out separately. See drawing showing garage and adjacent stairwell to above living spaces .
garage -Layout3.jpg
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Aaron
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by Aaron » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:19 am

I'm not familiar with heat detectors, but with some cursory research they appear to be like smoke and CO alarms, only they detect high degrees of heat.

I assume you're referring to either the National Electric Code (NEC) or the Canadian Electric Code (CEC). I can't really speak for the absence of language in the code. The code is devised by committee and either adopted or not by various jurisdictions. You may want to address your grievance with your local building authority because they can have their own code that is in addition to or supersedes national codes, or the may not have adopted the code at all.

As a builder you need only meet code, but in most cases you may also supercede the code. The homeowner can also make safety improvements that exceed code as well.

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Shannon
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by Shannon » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:41 am

You make a good point although I would say it should be a smoke detector , I have not seen heat detectors around here for 20 yrs not sure if they are even a thing anymore?
It does does not matter that your home does not have one or maybe is not required , you could always add one for your own piece of mind. As far as code goes this would fall under the building code and electrical code would only cover how it is wired and linked to others in the home.
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emtnut
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by emtnut » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:58 am

I know that Ontario building code doesn't call for one. It's probably the same for your area as well (sounds like you know this, and just curious why though)

As Shannon said, this falls under 'Building Code' . You could ask your local municipality or city hall, they can confirm the requirement.

Why they don't call for one ... best guess would be false tripping, maybe low past incidents of fire ??

As mentioned, nothing stopping you from installing one.
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LAWBC
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by LAWBC » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:38 am

The homeowner can also make safety improvements that exceed code as well.
I planning to do, just waiting for a quote .
If you are on the 3rd floor and an alarm goes off in the garage you probably will never hear it ,I bought a stand alone battery smoke and CO detector placed in the garage and tested it. The result was my wife could not hear the alarm on the third floor master bedroom, maybe because it is battery operated and not as loud. A hard wired heat detector will not give off a false alarm as could a smoke detector in a garage, ie.someone working on something that emits emissions.

BTW this garage is high and large enough that I park our 27 ft travel trailer in it, and some people are doing that. That is a lot of combustible material, Maybe the building code needs to catch-up
see; http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/ ... ces/hd135/

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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by emtnut » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:28 pm

LAWBC wrote:
The homeowner can also make safety improvements that exceed code as well.
I planning to do, just waiting for a quote .
If you are on the 3rd floor and an alarm goes off in the garage you probably will never hear it ,I bought a stand alone battery smoke and CO detector placed in the garage and tested it. The result was my wife could not hear the alarm on the third floor master bedroom, maybe because it is battery operated and not as loud. A hard wired heat detector will not give off a false alarm as could a smoke detector in a garage, ie.someone working on something that emits emissions.

BTW this garage is high and large enough that I park our 27 ft travel trailer in it, and some people are doing that. That is a lot of combustible material, Maybe the building code needs to catch-up
see; http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/ ... ces/hd135/
I've used heat detectors quite a bit in Industrial, they would be a good choice for your garage.

All you'll need is to bring in 3 conductor cable from any of you existing smokes, and you'll be set.

I agree with your comments on the building code. They probably should have a heat detector in the kitchen as well !
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Shannon
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by Shannon » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:37 pm

Emtnuts right a three wire hooked to any of your already hard wired smoke/co detectors will link the garage unit to them and such will make all alarms sound in the home if anyone of them senses a problem.
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by LAWBC » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:52 pm

Shannon wrote:Emtnuts right a three wire hooked to any of your already hard wired smoke/co detectors will link the garage unit to them and such will make all alarms sound in the home if anyone of them senses a problem.
And in there lies the problem, a brand new build and no 3 wire in the garage I wonder what the $$$ is to hack through the ceiling on the second floor and drop that wire into the garage.
Stayed tuned , electrician coming Friday .

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Aaron
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by Aaron » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:00 pm

If the cosmetics in the garage don't bother you, you could just run surface-mount steel tubing (EMT) on the wall or ceiling to an octagon box to mount the detector. That would save a lot of time trying to fish cable behind drywall. But you would need to still get it back to the nearest hard-wired detector in the house, and THAT would require some fishing of cable almost certainly.

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emtnut
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by emtnut » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:17 pm

LAWBC wrote:
Shannon wrote:Emtnuts right a three wire hooked to any of your already hard wired smoke/co detectors will link the garage unit to them and such will make all alarms sound in the home if anyone of them senses a problem.
And in there lies the problem, a brand new build and no 3 wire in the garage I wonder what the $$$ is to hack through the ceiling on the second floor and drop that wire into the garage.
Stayed tuned , electrician coming Friday .
If the $$ are too much, you could interconnect a wireless into the garage, and add a second wireless unit on the 2nd or 3rd floor.

You would still want AC to them (preferrably) but it could save you some $
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Shannon
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by Shannon » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:18 pm

Actually I believe there are wireless ones now my electrician mentioned a while ago. I think that is what he told me?
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Shannon
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by Shannon » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:19 pm

Hahaha looks like Emtnut beat me to it on the wireless units
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emtnut
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by emtnut » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:25 pm

Shannon wrote:Hahaha looks like Emtnut beat me to it on the wireless units
We thought it at the same time .... guess great minds thing alike :mrgreen:
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Shannon
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by Shannon » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:51 pm

emtnut wrote:
Shannon wrote:Hahaha looks like Emtnut beat me to it on the wireless units
We thought it at the same time .... guess great minds thing alike :mrgreen:
Yes they do!
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LAWBC
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ? Solved

Post by LAWBC » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:29 pm

So the Electrician was out today we chatted and surveyed the layout and behold above our heads at the entrance door to the townhouse ( see earlier post with drawing its located at the tip of the arrow ), there it was a smoke Co detector .Bingo problem solved.
I cannot believe i missed seeing this. So what he is going to do is add another hex box and attach conduit drill through the wall into the garage surface mount the detector 4 ft away from the wall.
Estimated 2.5hrs plus parts. I will build a false beam to hide the conduit in the entrance door way.

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emtnut
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by emtnut » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:54 am

Glad you managed an inexpensive solution !
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Shannon
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Re: No heat hard wired detector in garage ?

Post by Shannon » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:41 am

Perfect, could not be much easier
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