Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

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Rocket Rider
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Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Rocket Rider » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:10 pm

Do I need to use the purple wire nuts with anti-oxident inside them to join the copper conductors of the dishwasher to the aluminum conductors of the house cable/wire. Is there anything else i should do, such as abrading the AL conductors first to remove any build up of AL-oxide that might be present?

DanM
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by DanM » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:29 pm

I'd setup a junction box (either in the wall behind the dishwasher or in the floor underneath it, whichever is easier to access).Cut-off the excess aluminum wire and connect it to copper in the junction box, then run the copper wire to the dishwasher. I wouldn't recommend using the purple wire nuts. The electrician I spoke to told me they're prone to failure and recommended I use the brown #63 and #65 wire-nuts to connect aluminum to copper.

I'm not a pro at electrical stuff, this was the advice given to me by an electrician a few weeks ago about the exact same problem basically (mine was for a range hood but the principal is the same). Maybe one of the electrical experts around here might have a few things to add.

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Aaron
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Aaron » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:39 pm

I actually recommend wiring a plug-in cord to your dishwasher instead of hard-wiring it. Then you can unplug it easily in case you need to move it for maintenance.

Just make sure your nearby receptacle for the dishwasher is rated for Al/Cu to connect your aluminum house wire.

To prepare the wire, just strip off 3/4" insulation and use a steel brush to brush the stripped end. Aluminum will be shiny and silver when it's clean. Then apply a small dab of the anti-ox grease on it, and use that same steel brush to work it into the end. Be sure to torque the aluminum tightly on the receptacle screws. Then you should be good to go. No need to be concerned about wirenuts!

Rocket Rider
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Re: Hard wire dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Rocket Rider » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:52 pm

Thanks. I like the idea of adding a special Al/Cu electrical receptacle. At the dishwasher end I'd be hooking up a cu to cu connection to the cu of the new power cable and the cu conductors of the dishwasher. I think i see what you mean.

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Aaron
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Aaron » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:34 pm

Yeah I've never actually understood why dishwashers and food waste disposers aren't corded from the manufacturer. But I've always wired cords to them.

By the way, all receptacles througout your whole house should be Al/Cu rated, if that's not obvious.

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emtnut
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by emtnut » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:33 am

If you do decide to just hardwire it, I'd highly recommend 'alumiconns'.
They are far superior to any of the wirenut methods for al/cu wiring.

Something to keep in mind for any of the other wiring in your house.

I like the al/cu receptacles too, but if you need any TR receptacles they don't make them.

You can get the Alumiconn's at HD or Lowes, or order from Amazon
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Aaron » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:55 am

emtnut wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:33 am
I like the al/cu receptacles too, but if you need any TR receptacles they don't make them.
That's true, they sure don't.

Ostensibly, the Al/Cu receptacles you get today are for repair or replacement purposes. So you only need to be compliant with the code as it was the year of the original construction.

So yeah, technically a new receptacle is new work. In that case, copper wire should be used to wire a modern receptacle, preferably back to the panel for a dishwasher. Otherwise the "AlumiConn" would be great to make a splice from an existing receptacle with aluminum wire. Just hope there's room in that box. Those are bulky splices.

Rocket Rider
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Rocket Rider » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:56 am

It looks like the Alumiconns require a torque screw driver (apparently to ensure the terminals are tightened tight enough but not over-tightened). Not to sound cheap or anything, I would tend to avoid that cost for what would turn out to be a one-use tool. I appreciate the info provided here !

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Aaron
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Aaron » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:33 am

Yeah technically terminations to circuit breakers in panels should be torqued with a specific, measured torque as well.

I have no such tool. I just make a tight snug connection, and have never had any issues.

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emtnut
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by emtnut » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:17 pm

Aaron wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:55 am
emtnut wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:33 am
I like the al/cu receptacles too, but if you need any TR receptacles they don't make them.
That's true, they sure don't.

Ostensibly, the Al/Cu receptacles you get today are for repair or replacement purposes. So you only need to be compliant with the code as it was the year of the original construction.

So yeah, technically a new receptacle is new work. In that case, copper wire should be used to wire a modern receptacle, preferably back to the panel for a dishwasher. Otherwise the "AlumiConn" would be great to make a splice from an existing receptacle with aluminum wire. Just hope there's room in that box. Those are bulky splices.
If rocket rider is pulling a permit, and changing the whip for a receptacle, he'd have to go with AFCI (unfortunately !) .With no permit, I'd have no problems putting in regular al/cu recept ;)

For the alumicons and breakers, I have a german torque wrench .... gud unt tighten :mrgreen:
~~ I'm right on 34 of 100 answers ... That ties me with Babe Ruth :mrgreen: ~~

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Aaron
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Aaron » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:07 am

Arrg! You keep reminding me of those damn AFCIs!

But if he did use a whip he'd be good splicing that using AlumiConns to an existing circuit OR going to a new non-AFCI breaker in the panel?

That being the case, I'd go whip. If I pulled a permit, that is...

Rocket Rider
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Rocket Rider » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:25 am

I'm wondering if I should remove the breaker and the Al cable that serves the dishwasher and replace it with copper building wire (Romex) and the appropriate sized breaker at the panel.

Rocket Rider
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Rocket Rider » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:08 am

I've contacted lowes and home depot (website search and on-line store chat) and it looks like they don't sell the Alumiconn connectors. Perhaps it's only sold to licensed professionals.

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Aaron
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Aaron » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:16 pm

I've seen them locally at my big box store (Menards). I've noticed Lowe's is the weakest big box store when it comes to electrical supplies. But they have some good brands there that I like.

But they are available on Amazon and eBay.

https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... =Alumiconn

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... n&_sacat=0

Yeah you could just rewire if you choose. You may already have an Al/Cu breaker in your panel. I'm not sure there were ever breakers that would only terminate Al.

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emtnut
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by emtnut » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:06 pm

I see your Ontario !

Yeah, HD and Lowes don't carry them up here.
I've seen them at Princess Auto, and at Nedco and Westburne. Most electrical supply houses would have them, and most of them sell to anyone (don't need to be a contractor)

Amazon has them as well if you're not in a rush.

I agree with Aaron, your breaker should be fine. If it's easy to run a new cable, that would be the best solution !
~~ I'm right on 34 of 100 answers ... That ties me with Babe Ruth :mrgreen: ~~

Rocket Rider
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Rocket Rider » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:13 pm

Thanks for all your help. I'm leaning toward calling in a pro. I think I'm realizing my limitations and want to do the right thing so everyone can sleep at night. I've learned a lot. I think i could have an informed conversation with the electrician due to the stuff I've learned here. Thanks again.

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Aaron
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Aaron » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:37 pm

No shame in that -- we can do a lot but we can't do it all! Unless you're Shannon.

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A. Spruce
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by A. Spruce » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:41 pm

Aaron wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:37 pm
No shame in that -- we can do a lot but we can't do it all! Unless you're Shannon.
Werd!

:mrgreen:

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Shannon
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Re: Hard dishwasher to aluminum house wiring

Post by Shannon » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:41 am

Aaron wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:37 pm
No shame in that -- we can do a lot but we can't do it all! Unless you're Shannon.
I can't do it all, nor do I want to. :lol: :D
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