Cutting kitchen crown moulding

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tommyle
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Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by tommyle » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:23 pm

Hello,

I just bought some crown moulding and light valence that I'm going to install on the kitchen cabinets. Should I store them in the house's temperature for a week before I cut them? I read somewhere that people recommend doing that with the regular moulding so the wood would have enough time to shrink or expand before being up on the ceiling, not sure about the kitchen's moulding. :)

Watched Shannon's video on how to install (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VAYQCIPKWM). My crown moulding already has an attached cleat so I just want to confirm the way I should cut it with my mitre saw. Since the cleat is already attached, should I place it on the saw the same way it would be sitting on top of the cabinets? I.e., the cleat will be sitting on the saw's base and crown will be facing towards me? I'm a bit confused because I have seen a lot of videos where people cut the moulding "up side down" (without the attached cleat though).

Regarding the light valence, can you tell me an approach to cut it too?

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Shannon
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by Shannon » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:32 pm

Ok so it looks like your mouldings are not solid "real" wood so yes I would get it in the house for a couple days before cutting and installing.
The crown can be cut just the way you mentioned, sitting right side up facing you in the saw.
The skirt could be done a couple of ways. You could cut and install the cleat to the shiners then cut and install the trim to fit or keep the clear installed in the trim and cut both at one time and install. If you do option #2 it will be easiest to cut it upside down with the finished side facing you. IMO.
Hope
That helps
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by tommyle » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:58 pm

Thanks for quick response, Shannon! May I ask why you said the mouldings are not solid "real" wood since I was under an impression that they are except the cleats attached to them.

As for the skirt, the cleats are already clued by the kitchen company so I guess I have to cut both of them at the same time. I'm guessing if I cut up side down, I need to be worried with the direction of the mitre cut too, correct?

Do I need to be worried about the spring angles (e.g., 38, 45, 52 degree)? Does this apply to my moulding and skirts and it only applies to ceiling mouldings?

Btw, would you recommend using 18 gauge nailer or 16 gauge nailer to nail the cleat onto the cabinet? Since the nails will not be on the shiner, I was thinking 16 gauge one would provide more strength. Is that correct?

Thanks Shannon.

Tom

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A. Spruce
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:04 pm

When it comes to crown molding, the best advice I can give anyone, novice or pro, is to cut yourself some template pieces of an inside and an outside corner, this will be four pieces total. Mark them and keep them separate from the rest of the cutting debris around the saw. The reason for this is because of the exact question you asked, which way to orient the material in the saw. In cutting these blocks you will learn what orientation you will need to make the cut properly, the block is so that you don't have to figure this out with each cut, you can simply measure your end points, not whether it's an inside or outside corner, then refer to the block to set the saw and make the cut.

You want to make cuts as safely as possible, make sure that both the top lip of the crown and the bottom lip of the cleat are firmly supported so that the saw cannot grab the material and pull your hand into the blade. You may need to create a cutting jig to do this. At the very least, clamp the cleat to the saw table so you can keep your fingers and hands as far away as possible.
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by Shannon » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:33 pm

tommyle wrote:Thanks for quick response, Shannon! May I ask why you said the mouldings are not solid "real" wood since I was under an impression that they are except the cleats attached to them...
Oh sorry about that, on my phone they looked like A veneer wrap with a MDF core. You are correct they are solid wood.
Yes ,take your time and think about every cut, it can be very easy even for a pro to make a mistake when cutting upside down.
The spring cut is only relevant with your crown and even then because of how you are going to be cutting it there is no real concern. Sit it flat on your miter box bed and tight to the fence at the back of the cleat and you will be fine.
As far as the gauge the 18s are just fine, add a little "no nails" adhesive under it and its not going anywhere.
Good luck and sorry for the mix up on the material type earlier.
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by Shannon » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:36 pm

A. Spruce wrote:When it comes to crown molding, the best advice I can give anyone, novice or pro, is to cut yourself some template pieces of an inside and an outside corner, this will be four pieces total. Mark them and...
Welcome A.Spruce! I was told you and a couple other experienced trades people maybe joining us soon and we look forward to working with you all.
Good advice about keeping the crown well secured when cutting this way.
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by tommyle » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:47 pm

A. Spruce wrote:When it comes to crown molding, the best advice I can give anyone, novice or pro, is to cut yourself some template pieces of an inside and an outside corner, this will be four pieces total. Mark them and keep them separate from the rest of the cutting debris around the saw. The reason for this is because of the exact question you asked, which way to orient the material in the saw. In cutting these blocks you will learn what orientation you will need to make the cut properly, the block is so that you don't have to figure this out with each cut, you can simply measure your end points, not whether it's an inside or outside corner, then refer to the block to set the saw and make the cut.

You want to make cuts as safely as possible, make sure that both the top lip of the crown and the bottom lip of the cleat are firmly supported so that the saw cannot grab the material and pull your hand into the blade. You may need to create a cutting jig to do this. At the very least, clamp the cleat to the saw table so you can keep your fingers and hands as far away as possible.

Thanks for the advice, Spruce.
Shannon wrote:
tommyle wrote:Thanks for quick response, Shannon! May I ask why you said the mouldings are not solid "real" wood since I was under an impression that they are except the cleats attached to them...
Oh sorry about that, on my phone they looked like A veneer wrap with a MDF core. You are correct they are solid wood.
Yes ,take your time and think about every cut, it can be very easy even for a pro to make a mistake when cutting upside down.
The spring cut is only relevant with your crown and even then because of how you are going to be cutting it there is no real concern. Sit it flat on your miter box bed and tight to the fence at the back of the cleat and you will be fine.
As far as the gauge the 18s are just fine, add a little "no nails" adhesive under it and its not going anywhere.
Good luck and sorry for the mix up on the material type earlier.
No worries, Shannon. Sorry for having the pictures taken in a bad angle. ;)

It looks like I only need straight and 45 degree mitre cut except for the corner cabinets. Any advices on how to tackle this?

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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by Shannon » Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:51 pm

When a crown has an attached cleat like that I like to figure out my crown position (over hang ) and then mark a line on all of the cabinets that indicates the back edge of the crown cleat. I use my adjustable combination square set to the measurement i want and then trace the line by running my square against the front edge of all the boxes and marking with a pencil. Then you can measure every piece along that line and cut to length . Its pretty much fool proof. Check your angle of that corner cabinet compared to the other beside it. They are easily installed off angle but if you catch it before you cut anything you can adjust the cuts accordingly .
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:57 pm

Good tip on scribing a line to set the trim to, assures nice straight lines. *thumbs up*

You only have two types of corners, inside and outside, so ultimately it is a question of figuring out what angle to cut to achieve the best possible fit. I can tell you from 30 years experience that you will NEVER find any corner to be an exact 90 or 45 or any other accurate degree, which means you'll spend a fair amount of time and materials making tiny saw adjustments to get a nice mating joint at the proper angle.

The easiest way to do this is to simply have a couple decent sized scraps of the corners you're trying to replicate. Start at the actual 90 or 45 degree, actually it is half of this number, as it takes two 22.5 degree cuts to make a 45 and two 45 degree cuts to make a 90. Test fit your scrap pieces, then adjust the saw accordingly until you achieve the exact cut angle needed. For the outside corner, you'll be super close to 45 degree cuts, but don't be surprised that you'll need to adjust the cut angle by a 1/4 or 1/2 degree. Remember, you're making the same adjustment to BOTH sides of the cut, so tiny tiny adjustments are in order. For those 45 degree corners you're probably going to be a degree or two larger on one and a degree or two under on the other, again, tiny adjustments and sneak up on your desired cut angle. If you have to fudge, you want the outer most part of the trim, the most visible, to be tight and let any minor gap be at the heel of the join.

Quick Tip: You can use a sharpie or touch up stain for the cabinet to hide the visible part of the cut, this will blend in any imperfections in the cut. That is to say, if there is a slight gap or imperfection, you will hide it significantly if you make the cut/bare material the same color as the cabinet. Additionally, you can use several different colors of Dap Color Putty to custom mix a color to hide nails and small gaps.

Another tip is that you always want to cut materials face first, or finished side first, whenever possible, as this minimizes chips and tear out of the finished side. Sometimes this isn't possible, and in cases like this it is imperative to have a brand new, sharp blade. You should always have a sharp blade, but especially if cutting back to front.

Side note, I tend to get a tad wordy, and sometimes when describing something that is second nature to a pro, some details can be skipped over that a novice might need, so feel free to ask for clarification if something I have posted doesn't quite make sense. I know, it's a sickness, I'm working on it . . . :roll: :lol: :lol:

Just thought on one last thing that may or may not apply to your installation, and that is what to do with an "open" end on the trim. There are times when you want to turn the molding in on itself, called dead ending, to give a finished end rather than being able to see behind the trim or just having a blunt, boring end point. This is easily done, simply do an outside corner to kill the trim against itself. I tried to find a picture to illustrate this, oddly enough, there wasn't one easily linkable. Betcha Shannon has a pic though! ;)
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by Shannon » Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:37 am

I do not have a picture of a crown with a "return" (dead ending). but I have one with a baseboard.
I like your tip about the felt markers, it is very true that hides most cuts that are off just a hair by shading the cut surface and creating a kind of shadow.
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:26 am

I did a bare stud kitchen remodel last year, both the homeowner and the cabinet company were supposed to send me pics of the finished product, though never did. I could have shown you some great dos and don'ts with that project. While the cabinet company built a decent cabinet, their install was less than terrific. The problems were mostly with the trim work, but there was a lack of overall care by the installers who left behind some atrocious gaps that were filled with gobs of putty and caulk, not a good thing on cherry cabinets.
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by tommyle » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:49 pm

Shannon wrote:... I use my adjustable combination square set to the measurement i want and then trace the line by running my square against the front edge of all the boxes and marking with a pencil. Then you can measure every piece along that line and cut to length . Its pretty much fool proof. Check your angle of that corner cabinet compared to the other beside it. They are easily installed off angle but if you catch it before you cut anything you can adjust the cuts accordingly .
I saw you also marked some lines on the cabinets in your video. I'll use your tips. I'm not sure I was able to follow your technique of using an adjustable combination square. Sorry, I haven't used one before. Do you happen to have a video or something that explains such technique? Is the goal to find the angle of an "odd" corner? I'm planning to buy the Kreg moulding guide that inludes an angle finder tool. I'll try to use the angle finder to measure of those 2 inner corners of that corner cabinets and then simply divide that angle by 2.
A. Spruce wrote:...
The easiest way to do this is to simply have a couple decent sized scraps of the corners you're trying to replicate. Start at the actual 90 or 45 degree, actually it is half of this number, as it takes two 22.5 degree cuts to make a 45 and two 45 degree cuts to make a 90. Test fit your scrap pieces, then adjust the saw accordingly until you achieve the exact cut angle needed. For the outside corner, you'll be super close to 45 degree cuts, but don't be surprised that you'll need to adjust the cut angle by a 1/4 or 1/2 degree. Remember, you're making the same adjustment to BOTH sides of the cut, so tiny tiny adjustments are in order. For those 45 degree corners you're probably going to be a degree or two larger on one and a degree or two under on the other, again, tiny adjustments and sneak up on your desired cut angle. If you have to fudge, you want the outer most part of the trim, the most visible, to be tight and let any minor gap be at the heel of the
Thanks Spruce. I never mind having a lot of details and tips. I would not have to end the moulding for this project but for my next moulding project (ceiling), I'd would have to end at least once. I think i'm going to buy some cheap moulding to do the cut and test fit. Do you think that works even with different type of moulding?

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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by Shannon » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:11 pm

The adjustable combo. Square is a small ruler with an adjustable triangle piece that will slide along its length and can be set so any amount of the ruler sticks out from the end. By doing this it works as a good tool for marking a line at a set distance from something else . But really a block of wood cut to the right length will basically do the same thing if you do not have a combo. Square.
The Kreg angle finder will work fine to find that angle, and lime you said after you know the angle just divide it in half to get your cutting angle.
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:24 pm

I'm going to try to answer both your questions.

1 - I wouldn't worry too much about buying angle finder tools, they are often over priced and you can do the same thing with basic items, like 3x5 card stock or paper and tape to duplicate the angle, then use a protractor to measure the angle. Unless you're in the business of installing trim and HAVE TO KNOW what an angle is, you're going to use a specialty tool infrequently at best. It is a lot faster and easier just to cut a couple pieces of scrap close to what you think the angle is, the adjust your cut angles as necessary for a perfect fit. The great thing is, you can use ANY scrap to test fit the cut angle until you get it right, it doesn't have to be the actual trim you are installing.

2 - I think I already answered this with my first answer, but yeah, any scrap will do, it doesn't have to be crown, it can be pieces of 1x4 or 2x4 or whatever you've got at hand, the point is that you're searching for the exact corner angle needed to have a neatly mating cut. As long as the two scraps are the exact same dimension, it doesn't matter what it is. The caveat to this would be if you're trying to turn crown from a horizontal plane to a diagonal plane, in this instance you're going to need to use the same type of material as your finish material, just so you can hold and envision the joints around the corner being made. For the purposes of adding crown to your cabinets, anything will suffice as your scrap pieces. Hope this helps, if not, let me know and I'll try to clarify.

One minor side note, paint grade materials are WAY easier to work with because cut irregularities can be filled and painted over, unlike stain grade material where what you see is what you get. Yes, you can fill stain grade joints too, but that is not nearly as aesthetic as having good cuts. Another method of installing crown, though not something I'd recommend to the novice, is coping the cuts. With this method, you run one side of the trim long, into the corner, then you cope the end of the other side to the face profile of the first piece. This is a better method because you can fudge a tight joint that will stay tight, unlike traditionally miter cut joints which will open over time. Again, for your application, KISS - keep it super simple. Miter your joints, add a little putty or sharpie if necessary, and be done with it.

Last tidbit is, if you've got a decent joint, but still a slight gap that you can see through because of open air behind the joint (like in your case ), sharpie or stain the end grain of the pieces before install, then use DAP color putty in the back of the joint, meaning from the top, this will stop visible light from passing through the open joint, thus giving the illusion of a tight joint. Part of doing good work is knowing how to hide your mistakes, and I mean this in a good way, I'm not implying that you can do shoddy work and hide it, I mean that small mistakes can be concealed with relative ease. Most people do not have much of an eye for detail, so do your best, do it to your standards, be damned what anyone else has to say about it! 8-)

Damn I get wordy, I'm gonna have to work on that . . . :? :mrgreen:
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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by Shannon » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:33 pm

By the way that Kreg jig will not help you one bit cutting this crown you have because of the attached clear, so if that's why you were buying it then don't bother.
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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by tommyle » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:42 pm

Shannon wrote:By the way that Kreg jig will not help you one bit cutting this crown you have because of the attached clear, so if that's why you were buying it then don't bother.
Agreed with you that I would not need to use the Kreg jig for this project due to the attached cleat. :) I actually wanted to buy it for my next moulding project (moulding for main floor's ceilings), read some good reviews of it. The Kreg kit comes with the angle finder so I wanted to take advantage of the angle finder for this project too.

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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by Shannon » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:47 pm

tommyle wrote: Agreed with you that I would not need to use the Kreg jig for this project due to the attached cleat. :) I actually wanted to buy it for my next moulding project (moulding for main floor's ceilings), read some good reviews of it. The Kreg kit comes with the angle finder so I wanted to take advantage of the angle finder for this project too.
I own that jig as well and you can see me use it in my crown mould video
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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by tommyle » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:27 pm

A. Spruce wrote:I'm going to try to answer both your questions...
Thanks for a detailed info, Spruce. I don't mind at all, keep it coming. :D

1. Understood what you said but like I explained in my reply to Shannon's post that the Kreg jig kit happens to come with an angle finder. I think I need that kit for my next ceiling moulding project since I would need to cut things up side down, in addition to the spring angle and what not, I figured $40 kit would help boost my confidence level. :mrgreen:

2. Thanks for the info of using scrap piece. You just saved me from buying some cheap real moulding for test fit. I don't really know if I have a crown turning from a horizontal plane to a diagonal plane. Do you have a picture to illustrate this? The top of all my cabinets are on the same level so the moulding does not go up or down, only goes left/right to have a 90 degree turn. I can take a picture of all the cabinets if it helps. I also got a matching colored sharpie and crayon from the kitchen company where I bought the moulding. Is the DAP color putty you mentioned similar to the crayon I got? The crayon stick is really hard though. Is the DAP somewhat like a caulk? I don't see DAP color putty on eother Homedepot ot Lowes website so I'm not sure if they carry it. I'm in the GTA btw. A general question though, to fill a mitre gap of an outside corner, do we rub/apply the putty or crayon right on the shiner side? For an inside corner, we need to apply the putty or crayon on the back of the crown? I'll have both under and above LED strip lights installed right after I finish this project. I already fished all the wires and got them ready. :) Due to the these lightning, I think I need to be careful to block all the future lights going through the mitre joints. It would not look good.

Sorry for yet another set of amateur questions. Getting great replies from you and Shannon helped me a lot to clear up my mind before I pull out my mitre saw and start cutting. :)
Last edited by tommyle on Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by tommyle » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:35 pm

Shannon wrote:I own that jig as well and you can see me use it in my crown mould video
You're right. I just quickly skimed through your crown moulding video again and I saw you were using that jig. Thanks for reminding me of another good reference video for ceiling moulding. I will definitely need it in a few weeks. :)

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Re: Cut kitchen's moulding

Post by A. Spruce » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:40 am

Changing planes is usually due to a vaulted ceiling, where you transition from a horizontal ceiling to a diagonal ceiling plane. Crappy pic, but it does show turning crown from one plane to another:
Image

Putty:
I would use the sharpie on the face (visible side ) edge of all cuts. To be clear, you're using it on the cut end to color the end grain the same as the face, which helps to hide any imperfections. You only have to do it to the leading edge, not the entire cut face. As for the crayon, it's more for filling nail holes than anything else, and generally doesn't do that great on cabinets because it is so hard and kind of a pain to work with.

DAP Color Putty is carried by both HD and Lowes, and most well stocked hardware stores, so sourcing shouldn't be a problem. It is a soft "dough" like putty that you can use straight out of the jar or mix with other colors to custom color for your needs, this is why I recommend it, you can get an exact match. To use, simply press it into the nail hole or crack and wipe out the excess with a rag or paper towel.

Filling cracks with putty, press it in from the front and wipe it off with a rag or paper towel. I will often use the corner of a putty knife to create a perfect, sharp corner, rather than leave the putty kinda clumped into the trim details. If the corner is tight with just a hair gap and you don't want to see putty, fill the crack from the back. Filling from the back is only possible when there is open air above the crown, as will be in your case since the cabinets do not touch the ceiling. It's an aesthetic thing, sometimes you don't want to see putty and the crack can only be seen from one certain vantage point and only because light shines through the crack. In cases like this, fill from the back. Again, it's an aesthetic thing, fill from the back first, if you don't like it, fill it from the front.

The key with ALL trim installations is to have as tight a joint as possible and minimize the use of fillers. This is especially true with stain grade materials that can't be touched up with paint and caulking. This is why I recommend using scrap pieces of trim or whatever to precut the joints to perfection before you start whittling on the good stuff.

As for all the questions . . . Oh My God!! The questions!!! The questions!!! ;) :lol: IMHO, there are no such thing as dumb questions when the asker is genuinely interested in learning and understanding a process. We all had to start somewhere and don't always have the luxury of watching over the shoulder of a pro. I'm quite certain that is why Shannon started this forum. 8-)
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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by tommyle » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:27 pm

I searched Homedepot and Lowes websites again but did not see them carry DAP Color Putty, not sure if they carry it in store only. I can check tomorrow. They do however show Minwax Wood Filler with different color choices online. I'm guessing if I can't find DAP in store, Minwax could serve the same purpose?

As for the mitre joint, I saw some people using wood glue as well as brad nail whereas some only use wood glue to hold the joint. I wanted to use the glue alone so there would be no nails exposed on the shiner face, in case my friends want to "inspect" my work. :) Would using glue alone be a good idea? Btw, when I was at the kitchen company, I tried to see how they did the mitre joint for the light valence installed on the cabinets in the showroom. They used stapler pins underneath the joints to hold the two 45 degree pieces together. I couldn't tell if they also used glue or not. I doubt I would use that technique to do the joint though since if you put your head under the cabinet and look up, you will see the exposed stapler pins, not sure how many would do that but i did. :mrgreen: :lol: Not sure if its visibility is better than having nails on the mitre joints. What's your opinion on this?

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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by A. Spruce » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:10 pm

I may have been mistaken about the brand of color putty. I just went to get a pic for you and see that it isn't DAP, it's Minwax. There are various brands of similar products. What you're looking for is an oil based putty, as opposed to the water or solvent based materials that dry almost instantly. The oil based materials allow intermixing and extremely working times. Here's a vid on what it is and how it's used. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOw6v6Q9I-4

I only use glue when a piece is so small that it can't be mechanically attached. Does gluing a joint work, well, yes and no. When you take the long fibers of the wood grain and glue them against other long fibers of wood grain, you get a fantastic hold. When you glue end grain to end grain, in the case of a trim joint, essentially what you're doing is trying to glue straws end to end. You have very little surface area on the end of a straw, so there is very little holding power. Wood glue, in and of itself, is very brittle and weak, it does not span gaps, it takes the mating of two surfaces pressed tightly together for wood glue to have any real holding power. And, it has to be bare wood to bare wood, the glossy finish on your cabinets and trim will prevent the glue from penetrating into the wood grain to create the adhesion you're looking for.

I could describe several alternative gluing methods for the joints, but in all honesty, I don't think gluing the joints is necessary or the best way to do it. As for how to attach the trim to the cabinets, kind of depends on how your cabinets are made. Often, there is a bit of a "flange" on the top of the cabinet, meaning the face and sides are taller than the top of the cabinet box itself. If you have this style of cabinet, then you can either screw or nail from the back into the trim. If you have flat tops, then you'll have to work from inside the cabinets.

You will need lots of help with this, at least one person to hold the trim as tightly as possible to the cabinet, while you shoot a nail or drill and screw. If you drill and screw you will want to either use screws with a shank or drill a larger hole in the cabinet than the trim, how do you do that, start with the trim held in place, use the small bit with a depth stop set to the length of the screw and drill the first hole through the cabinet and into the trim. Swap to a bit slightly larger than the screw and redrill the cabinet hole only. I believe they make special step bits for such things, but since I rarely need them, I just use two drill bits. It is important that the cabinet hole is larger than the screw all the way through, so that the screw spins in the cabinet and draws the trim up tight. Choose your screw or nail lengths carefully.

A moment to talk about safety here. Nail guns are dangerous when used in tight quarters with others in close proximity. Keep your finger OFF the trigger until the gun is in place and you are ready to nail, and never have it pointed at anyone at any time. Wear eye protection! Nails can turn in any number of directions as they travel through the material, so it is imperative that hands be kept at least two fastener lengths away from the area of work OR use a buffer block between hands and materials being fastened. Similar warnings if drilling and screwing, use caution and be aware of your surroundings at all times.

It bears mentioning here, you're going to be working on ladders, so in the unfortunate event that somebody gets a finger, or other body part, where it doesn't belong, it can easily result a fall. And lest you think such things don't happen, I can't tell you how many times I've shot a nail into a finger that was poorly placed. From experience I can tell you that it does NOT feel good and there will be blood. It will put a serious crimp in the days fun. The more mindful you are, the less chance there is for accidents.
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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by A. Spruce » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:17 pm

I should also note that the type of nail you use makes a big difference in the hole left behind. A finish gun leaves a large hole, whereas a brad nailer is a much smaller hole that is easier to hide. Pay attention to the depth that the gun drives the nail and the shape of the hammer tip. Finish guns have a large, flat hammer and leave a pock mark about the size of a flat head screwdriver, unless you can use a rubber foot and adjust drive depth. A brad nailer is a much much smaller hammer head, though similar shape to a finish gun.

Assuming your nail gun has a similarly shaped driver, you want the width of the driver to go with the grain, not across the grain. Again, using the flat head screw driver analogy, if you make a pock mark with the wood grain, super easy to hide, go across grain and you get a pretty noticeable mark that will be hard to hide. Draw a razor knife across a piece of wood, across the grain you get a scratch that is noticeable, with the grain you won't even see it. Same principle when using a nail gun. Practice on a scrap block of wood, you'll see what I mean.
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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by tommyle » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:13 am

On the "tip" of the mitre joint, would you use glue and nail to hold it or just glue only?

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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by A. Spruce » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:49 am

What I'm saying is, there is no need to fasten the joint at all. As long as you fasten the trim to the cabinet well, everything will be fine.

If you just can't get a joint to align and stay aligned, then maybe a nail and glue, but I'd be more inclined to glue a tightly fitting block in behind the joint and hold it in place with clamps until the glue dries. Very rarely have I run into a situation where this was necessary though.
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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by tommyle » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:15 pm

Thanks for helping, guys. So I've pulled out my saw and started a first cut. :D

I'm now facing an issue with the cabinets. In one section where there're two 2 cabinets attached to each other. They're not levelled. :cry: Well, at least one of them is not.

You see there's about 1/16" gap between the light valence and the bottom of the one cabinet. See attached picture 1 and 2 below.

I'm thinking about using a bead of caulk to fill the gap between the cleat and the the bottom of the cabinet (attached picture 3). This way there will still be gap but the caulk will be able to block the LED strip light going through. Is this a good idea? I doubt having a line of putty filled up on the front would look better.

Sorry for the crappy pictures.

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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:31 pm

Yes, start with caulking from the back, preferably with a dark caulk to resist light penetration.
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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by tommyle » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:40 pm

Thanks for a prompt reply, Spruce. I'll go with your suggestion. :)

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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:54 pm

If you want to see if it works well enough before caulking, put a piece of electrical tape or duct tape over the back of the joint, see if it's still something to worry about.
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Re: Cutting kitchen crown moulding

Post by tommyle » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:13 pm

Ah, good tip. I'll try that.

On the left of the attached picture, there's a filler and then the fridge gable. Would you recommend to have the light continues all the way to that gable (i.e., 2 strips of light valence) or it should only be underneath the cabinet (i.e., 3 strips of light valence create a U shape). The later would create a "hollow space" between the gable and the light valence, which in turn would not look nice IMO. What's your thought on this? :)

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