plumbing clean out pipe

Ask your bathroom related questions here
greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:28 pm

Hello
I need to add a toilet in my basement development and was wondering if my plan is ok?
I was gonna replace this old cast iron connection and also the clean out pipe. But im not sure if im "allowed" to just remove the clean out pipe or if there is some code restriction that is not allowing me to do that? I was gonna add a new PVC connection and also a new Y connector for toilet drain.
Inspector told me to add the new PVC connection for toilet, which is fine, but i forgot to ask him if its ok to remove the clean out.
Attachments
plumbing.JPG
plumbing.JPG (88.53 KiB) Viewed 1219 times

User avatar
Shannon
Posts: 13036
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Shannon » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:53 pm

It is best to not completely delete clean outs, they are vital if you have sewer troubles down the road for access. Is there any way you could extend and move the clean out without a bunch or elbows to a better location where it would not be in the bathroom floor or even add it in ahead of its current location?
If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a donation using PayPal or pledging us on Patreon

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:15 pm

OK, Yes I can move it and extend the line, Im just not sure if its possible to make it clean and neat? I didnt want for a drain clean out pipe hole be in a newly developed bathroom. Maybe there is some nice cover for it i can figure out if it cant be deleted lol

User avatar
A. Spruce
Posts: 6143
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:23 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:26 pm

I believe that toilets are considered clean out accesses. You'd have to verify this, of course, but it could be a solution to your problem
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:36 pm

Oh ok, that would be good if i can do that.
Actually originally i mounted the toilet on top of the clean out access :D
It is the same size 4" but inspector said i cant do that and wants me to install a Y just a little further up and cap off the access pipe.

User avatar
A. Spruce
Posts: 6143
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:23 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:49 pm

I suspect that is because the clean out currently acts as sort of a deadend and might plug up. By installing a Y off the main trunk you don't have this problem. I'm guessing, your inspector/building department can explain their reasoning for themselves.
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

User avatar
Shannon
Posts: 13036
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Shannon » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:50 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:26 pm
I believe that toilets are considered clean out accesses. You'd have to verify this, of course, but it could be a solution to your problem
Yes they can be but I believe you need to remove the toilet to power snake the line . Not a huge deal but does take more time and effort.
If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a donation using PayPal or pledging us on Patreon

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:20 pm

Thank you for the tips guys. Very helpful as always!

User avatar
A. Spruce
Posts: 6143
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:23 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:33 pm

Shannon wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:50 pm
A. Spruce wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:26 pm
I believe that toilets are considered clean out accesses. You'd have to verify this, of course, but it could be a solution to your problem
Yes they can be but I believe you need to remove the toilet to power snake the line . Not a huge deal but does take more time and effort.
Yes, you'd have to remove the toilet, but this is probably preferable to having an exposed clean out plug to deal with. 8-)
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:05 pm

So I was also wondering is it OK to use a 90 degree bend in plumbing? I read somewhere it is a NO NO, but maybe it was referred to something else?
Attachments
plumbing1.JPG
plumbing1.JPG (55.4 KiB) Viewed 1190 times

User avatar
Shannon
Posts: 13036
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:55 pm

You do not want a standard 90 elbow in this drain for sure. If you have to turn a 90 use either a standard 45 and a street 45 together or use a long sweep 90. These two options still turn a 90 but at a little more gradual bend.
If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a donation using PayPal or pledging us on Patreon

User avatar
Shannon
Posts: 13036
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:56 pm

Did the inspector you talked to say you had proper venting close enough for adding this toilet?
If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a donation using PayPal or pledging us on Patreon

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:01 pm

Oh ok. Im working with very small room and trying to fit the toilet to have a 12" rough in between the wall and the drain hole. So Im trying to make that turn as small as possible. I will see if the long sweep 90 or two 45s will work.

Inspector said I dont have a vent out in my house at all :D Maybe because its old? Idk if they used to make them back in the day.
He said he wont make me install vent out pipe, he said I should install Air Admittance Valve. But not a cheap one, he said to pay a little extra so it wont fail in the near future.

User avatar
Shannon
Posts: 13036
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:58 pm

No vent at all? Wow not sure I have ever seen that?
If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a donation using PayPal or pledging us on Patreon

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:25 pm

Dont know if I have it or not for sure, but we looked and couldnt find it in my unfinished basement. Maybe there is something on the main level behind the walls.

User avatar
Aaron
Posts: 3411
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:03 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Aaron » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:04 pm

As you can see that wye in your pic above has a 45-degree branch on it, so if you add a 45-degree street elbow, you will have a nice graceful 90 to go up to the toilet. Then the other branch of the wye can be the clean-out access.

Also that black pipe is ABS, I'm not sure whether than can go below ground?

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:29 am

Im not sure either but was under the impression that ABS was suitable for below ground. Can someone please confirm ?

Thanks for the tips.

User avatar
Shannon
Posts: 13036
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Shannon » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:58 pm

ABS can be buried but some areas prefer PVC over ABS so you may want to check with your inspector again to be sure. FYI, ABS is generally cheaper in price. Also be sure you have the right glue depending on the product you do chose.
If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a donation using PayPal or pledging us on Patreon

User avatar
Shannon
Posts: 13036
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Shannon » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:00 pm

Aaron wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:04 pm
As you can see that wye in your pic above has a 45-degree branch on it, so if you add a 45-degree street elbow, you will have a nice graceful 90 to go up to the toilet. Then the other branch of the wye can be the clean-out access.

Also that black pipe is ABS, I'm not sure whether than can go below ground?
I think if you look at the original picture you will see that he will be using all ports for drains/pipes in the situation he has
If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a donation using PayPal or pledging us on Patreon

User avatar
Aaron
Posts: 3411
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:03 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Aaron » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:17 pm

Shannon wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:00 pm
I think if you look at the original picture you will see that he will be using all ports for drains/pipes in the situation he has
Yeah I was thinking he’d need two wyes. One for the toilet and one to preserve his original layout. Picture’s worth a thousand words:

8BA7F76A-B284-4724-A86A-678BFE5CEB13.jpeg
8BA7F76A-B284-4724-A86A-678BFE5CEB13.jpeg (46.45 KiB) Viewed 1155 times

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:05 am

its great picture, thanks for visualisation!
Is it possible if I remove the cleanout pipe altogether and use long sweep 90 for existing turn (where second wye is shown right now)? I know Shannon mentioned I should leave the clean out in there but I was thinking I could use toilet for clean out as well even if I have to remove it later to access.

Also wye for the toilet does it have to be placed upwards or does it have to lay down on the side and than the 45 elbow points upwards. Thats how I picture it.
Attachments
plumbing2.JPG
plumbing2.JPG (54.5 KiB) Viewed 1150 times

User avatar
Shannon
Posts: 13036
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Shannon » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:18 am

Wye does not have to be turned up and yes you were going to eliminate that clean out.
If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a donation using PayPal or pledging us on Patreon

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:39 am

thanks!

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:20 pm

So I just put it all together. Connected the Cast iron 4" to ABS 4" using a no hub coupling. I compacted the dirt underneath to support the new connections. After about 3 hours I noticed the area around the couplings is moist, not soaked wet but darker in color. So I assume there probably a leak between the coupling and the pipe? Is there a silicone I could use or something else to act as gasket and better seal or not a good idea?

I tried to clean the cast iron as much as I could, but it was pretty rusty on the outside and also some lettering engraved, maybe thats what causing not so tight seal. But from what i can see it is very tight.

User avatar
A. Spruce
Posts: 6143
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:23 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:37 pm

Are you using a cast iron appropriate no hub fitting? One style is simply a rubber sleeve with hose clamps, the other has an aluminum shield around the rubber sleeve. I forget which is which for cast iron, but it's important to use the right one.
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

User avatar
Shannon
Posts: 13036
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:12 am

They actually say not to use the fittings with the stainless steel sleeves under ground but a old plumber I knew only used them. Like he said the stainless will out last the cast and gives a much better connection.Also some old cast is on the small side and using a clamp designed for copper to ABS may be needed to compensate for that. If the fitting slid on pretty easy then I would say that is the case here.
If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a donation using PayPal or pledging us on Patreon

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:32 am

Yes, I just used a regular rubber sleeve with no steel around it. Originally I was looking for the sleeve with shield around it but guy at HD store said they dont have them and I should use without shield.
And I also measured the cast iron pipe and it is slightly smaller than the ABS 4" pipe. I heard about the copper to ABS fitting but not sure what do they looks like? Would you be able to provide a pic or link to where I can find one?
That would help a lot!

Thank you :)

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:03 pm

I went to two specialised plumbing stores today in Calgary and asked them about copper to ABS coupling but they havent even heard bout it. Another guy at lowes said thats what i should use also.
They were offering me a coupling with metal strap around it, maybe I will have to use that? My only concern with it that its even smaller than the strap I was using, maybe 2-3 wide...so less grip i assume, but it has those rigged walls inside.

User avatar
Shannon
Posts: 13036
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:12 pm

Is there a plumbing business in Calgary that sells plumbing parts to people walking in off the street? I'm sure there is, Go there tell them you are connecting Cast to ABS and you need the fitting for that and preferably one with a stainless steel jacket. You could also take the measurement of the outside of the cast with you to be sure.
Its been a while since I have done one but I believe the end that goes on the case will be pretty tight to get on??
If you've found our videos or website information helpful, please considering making a donation using PayPal or pledging us on Patreon

greg1
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:44 am
Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: plumbing clean out pipe

Post by greg1 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:23 pm

Yes, thats where I went today. a big plumbing warehouse, they even took me in the back and there were aisles and aisles of fittings, Like a big plumbing walmart :), but we couldn't find a fitting, only a not very wide 2" one. I will go to another one. Im sure there is some available somewhere. thanks

Post Reply