drywall mud talk

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A. Spruce
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:48 pm

Shannon wrote:As for paint you guys have heard me say it before here and I know Sprucy does not like the idea but I almost exclusively use Ben Moore Aura, its one of those paint/primer in one products.
While I don't like the idea of P&P-in-1, I'm not opposed to it coming from a dealer such as BM. As I've said, dealer paints are a whole different breed than the crap coming out of Behr and the other odd brands found at big boxes and general retailers.
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Aaron
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by Aaron » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:59 pm

A. Spruce wrote:The spackle I'm familiar with is Dap painter's spackle, which is kind of like wet foam. Great for nail holes, but not much else.

If that stuff you're using is a solvent type, I can see where you might get a little more mileage out of it.
Ready-Patch has the consistency of very thick joint compound. Comes in a traditional steel paint can where you need to pry off the lid.

I've used other lightweight spackle, and you're right, it's only good for small holes. Those come in small plastic tubs.

Ready-Patch can span larger holes and cracks.

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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by Aaron » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:06 pm

A. Spruce wrote: While I don't like the idea of P&P-in-1, I'm not opposed to it coming from a dealer such as BM. As I've said, dealer paints are a whole different breed than the crap coming out of Behr and the other odd brands found at big boxes and general retailers.
I've had pretty decent luck with the paint I get from Menards, they stock Pittsburgh Paints (PPG) and Dutch Boy.

I used to get a bright white waterborne acrylic enamel at Sherwin-Williams at a regular price of like $60/gal (the only size they had) to paint my woodwork in this house. But now Menards has the same type of enamel from PPG that is like half of that price and also comes in quart cans which is what I most often need. It seems just as good to me.

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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by Aaron » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:19 pm

As far as taping goes I always used the mesh stuff because it is so DIY friendly. But watching Shannon's video it actually looks like the paper is just as easy.

The most recent issue of Family Handyman talks about all the drywall and tape types and they say the paper tape actually makes a stronger joint which is pretty interesting.

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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:51 pm

Yes, the paper does create stronger bond and does a better job concealing joints, as cracking won't telegraph through paper like it does with mesh. Really, the only benefit of mesh is that it's self-stick, so it kind of takes a step out of the taping process by not having to create a mud bed.

Back when Lumberjack was a thing, they carried Valspar. It was relatively inexpensive and it performed well. For projects that mattered, it was Kelly Moore because they were close to my office and generally handy around town, but SW, Dunn Edwards, and all the others got used if they were more convenient to the job site.
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by Shannon » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:25 pm

You guys ever tried a rotary drywall sander? I purchased one (kind of a middle of the road priced one ) for a really large overhead job. It did not totally work as good as I hoped. On walls it is pretty decent and I actually used it to sand a plywood subfloor that was skim coated which worked really well. The main problem with over head is that the motor is mounted near the head on this unit so it got cumbersome to hold up and the head also did not pivot smoothly so it occasionally would over sand an area if you were not careful. The dust vac feature worked really well however and collected likely 80% of the dust as you sanded before it was airborne . I have since seen units with the motor at the handle area which I think would be much better. I have to say a barely ever dig it out and should really sell it as it does not work as good as i need.
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:16 pm

Yowza, that looks like an arm and neck killer!!!!! :shock:

I've never used one of any kind. I know there are manual sanding heads you hook to a shop vac, didn't know there were mechanized ones. Many years ago I did a garage conversion into a man cave, old house with plaster walls and ceiling, even in the garage. At any rate, owner wanted baby's butt smooth surfaces, so I had to float out the rough, sandy plaster. After all that floating I was looking for a fast and easy way to do the sanding, so I fired up my DeWalt orbital sander and Fein vacuum. It was still super messy and super dusty, but the orbital worked great. The vacuum caught 75%, or so, of the dust, the rest was blown out of the garage with box fans. The only casualty was the $30 bearing under the orbital head, it didn't like the drywall dust much. :? :mrgreen: I was able to do in a day with the orbital what would have taken several by hand. The time and labor savings was worth risking a $60 sander.
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Re: Aaron and I are toast

Post by emtnut » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:27 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Well, THERE'S your problem! :lol: Yes, popcorn can easily and successfully be patched or blended back into old. You've got basically a few choices here:
1 - Spray patch to match and walk away.
2 - Spray to match, then respray the whole ceiling.
3 - Scrape entire ceiling and respray.
4 - Spray patch, let dry, then paint ceiling to match color of new (shiny white ) and old (dirty, dingy )

Depending on how dirty the ceiling is, I usually opt for #2 or #3, as this is faster than painting, considering the walls and floor are already tarped to spray the patch.
I'll probably go with #2. Also, I think I'd go with a pro on this, I don't think those spray machines are a DIY type of thing ??
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:01 pm

It will probably cost you as much to rent something as buy it, and IMHO, buying your own is the better way to go in cases like this. All you need is an air compressor, hose, and hopper gun, if you already have the first two, then you can pick up a gun for as little as $25.

The gun is simply an "on/off" switch for the flow of the mud in the hopper, this is done by drawing the nozzle in and out of a hole. Air is forced through the nozzle and the mud flows around the outside of the nozzle when you pull the trigger. There will be a plate over the nozzle with different sized holes in it, this is what controls the size of the texture and shape of the texture. For acoustic, you'll be using the largest hole because of the styrofoam beads in the mud, but play with the settings until you find the one you like.

The one addition that I believe you can't live without is a ball valve to control your air flow. This will allow you to use any size or type of compressor to run your gun and not only control air flow during spraying, but turn the air off when you're not because the gun does not. The added benefit of this is with small portable compressors, they don't have the CFM to keep up with the gun, so you spray for a minute and stop, spray, and stop, and so on, until you get the desired result. I have a small 2.5 gallon compressor and this is all I've ever used to spray all types of texture and run my nailers.

Now, you will use mud consistency, tip hole size, and air flow rate to control the size of the texture being spit out. Again, with acoustic hole size isn't much of a factor, but mud consistency and air flow rate will.

Keep in mind that drywall is probably the easiest thing to learn because if you screw it up, simply scrape it off and start over. And, it's taken me longer to type all this to explain it than it will to actually shoot the texture. I'm not saying that you shouldn't hire a pro if you're more comfortable with that, but you don't need to if you're game to try it yourself. Besides, you got Shannon and I here to laugh at . . . er, uh, encourage . . . you along. ;) :mrgreen:
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:06 pm

One last thing about acoustic texture, in older homes it can have asbestos in it. Here in the states, anything pre 1978, don't know what Canada's timeline is. If you're at all concerned about the presence of asbestos, scrape a sample into a baggie and take it in for testing. Here in the states, that's usually the county extension office, though I'm sure a call to your building department could tell you where to send it.
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Re: Aaron and I are toast

Post by Shannon » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:18 pm

emtnut wrote: I'll probably go with #2. Also, I think I'd go with a pro on this, I don't think those spray machines are a DIY type of thing ??
I have a video showing using the hopper style and compressor. It may give you the idea of what is involved. you can buy these hoppers pretty cheap and you may even be able to rent?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzOKWFL ... 910F11A363
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Re: Aaron and I are toast

Post by emtnut » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:22 am

Shannon wrote:
emtnut wrote: I'll probably go with #2. Also, I think I'd go with a pro on this, I don't think those spray machines are a DIY type of thing ??
I have a video showing using the hopper style and compressor. It may give you the idea of what is involved. you can buy these hoppers pretty cheap and you may even be able to rent?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzOKWFL ... 910F11A363
That's perfect ! Something even a sparky could do :mrgreen:

The premix you bought, was it 'orange peel' texture ... and can you get just 'regular' popcorn in those ?
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by Shannon » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:23 am

The stuff I had will do pretty much anything but popcorn. Usually popcorn texture comes in a dry bag and you add water and mix. I have never actually sprayed popcorn, everyone here wants it gone not installed! :o :o
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Re: Aaron and I are toast

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:34 am

emtnut wrote:The premix you bought, was it 'orange peel' texture ... and can you get just 'regular' popcorn in those ?
If you've been reading along you'll see that for normal textures, orange peel, knock-down, things like that, we use premixed joint or topping compounds thinned with water. Acoustic texture is a different animal because it uses styrofoam beads to create the "popcorn" appearance. This is a dry product that you will mix yourself, just follow the instructions on the packaging.
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Re: Aaron and I are toast

Post by Shannon » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:22 pm

A. Spruce wrote: If you've been reading along you'll see that for normal textures, orange peel, knock-down, things like that, we use premixed joint or topping compounds thinned with water. Acoustic texture is a different animal because it uses styrofoam beads to create the "popcorn" appearance. This is a dry product that you will mix yourself, just follow the instructions on the packaging.
He is a sparky remember ,so cut him a break. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Aaron and I are toast

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:08 pm

Shannon wrote:He is a sparky remember ,so cut him a break. :lol: :lol:
Oh, he makes that pretty hard to forget! :shock: :lol:
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by Aaron » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:48 pm

How about corner bead! Anyone have preferences? I've always used the steel bead, but I've been reading it shouldn't be used in bathrooms as it could rust.

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Re: Aaron and I are toast

Post by emtnut » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:26 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
emtnut wrote:The premix you bought, was it 'orange peel' texture ... and can you get just 'regular' popcorn in those ?
If you've been reading along you'll see that for normal textures, orange peel, knock-down, things like that, we use premixed joint or topping compounds thinned with water. Acoustic texture is a different animal because it uses styrofoam beads to create the "popcorn" appearance. This is a dry product that you will mix yourself, just follow the instructions on the packaging.
I haven't been reading along :oops:
I'm trying to follow, but when I google your buzz words like orange peel and knock down ... well, I get pictures of orange peels, and MMA guys knocking other guys down :shock:

I'll ask more questions if my daughter does buy this place, but good to know I could re-stipple (popcorn) the ceiling myself instead of bringing someone in.

I guess that 'popcorn' is ... well, kinda 80's , so I may just redo the whole dining/living room in something more modern??. I did see in another thread that the popcorn stuff sands off relatively easy :?
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Re: Aaron and I are toast

Post by emtnut » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:27 pm

Shannon wrote: He is a sparky remember ,so cut him a break. :lol: :lol:
Now your on my case too :o

:lol: 8-)
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Re: Aaron and I are toast

Post by emtnut » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:58 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Shannon wrote:He is a sparky remember ,so cut him a break. :lol: :lol:
Oh, he makes that pretty hard to forget! :shock: :lol:
I'm coming to visit you and drink all your beer :lol:
I'll find your stash of good stuff too 8-)
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:40 pm

Aaron wrote:How about corner bead! Anyone have preferences? I've always used the steel bead, but I've been reading it shouldn't be used in bathrooms as it could rust.
I'm partial to the metal corner bead because it stays straight, the plastic stuff likes to bend and tweak, resulting in wobbly corners. I also much prefer square corners to round, partly because a square corner just looks better, and in large part because when base gets run, most can't be bothered to either miter the corners properly or use milled, round corner pieces of trim.

As for rusting, yes, metal will rust if water is allowed to get to it, thing is, if you maintain your paint and caulking properly water getting to the corner bead is highly unlikely. The only times I've found rust, in both new and old homes, is when there hasn't been any maintenance of the caulk and paint or the property in general, then it's easy to find rust everywhere, including places you wouldn't expect it.
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by Shannon » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:27 am

Yup, metal bead with paper attached is all I use. Attaches easy to wall and is string and straight
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Re: drywall mud talk

Post by Mastercarpentry » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:14 am

What, me like Behr paints? Well some of them yes, but not all. Same goes for S-W. Abut the only brand of paint where i like all of them is Benjamin Moore and sadly almost nobody I work for will spend for that :(

While I'm not really a good finisher I've been around some of the best. Yes on scraping the bucket walls every time you get mud out. Also flatten the top of the contents. Never put mud back, throw it out- losing a little is cheap, losing a whole bucket from crud isn't. When you store leftover partial buckets, flatten the top of the contents then add a half inch or more of clean water on top. Do not mix, leave it lay there where it will keep air away from the mix. When you need to use it, pour off the water, mix, and go. Mud will keep 2-3 years this way as long as the lid seals well. A mild moldy smell is probably OK to use for taping, a heavy smell throw out as it will be lumpy and not dry evenly. One good mud can do all if you add water for the finish coat, but topping mix is smoother and easier to do well with. Box mud is not as good for the top coat- it's cheaper for a reason which isn't about the price of the bucket. I do both sides of the bed coat in corners at the same time. Yes, there's a groove but only on one side; you skim coat that side to fill it then skim the other side when dry. Saves a bit of time this way. Or get a corner knife- I could never master those and even few Pro finishers can either so I don't feel bad about that :lol:

Texture matching is an art, but with patience, knowledge, and the right tools you can match anything almost perfectly. One basic trick is that the new will shrink so it must be slightly heavier than you think you need. Brush-applied texture might require that you use as worn a brush as the first guy did, as a new brush will give a 'sharper' look. If there's a lot of area it's often easier to re-do it all. Popcorn matching is tough but do-able. Use water to approach the consistency needed then add paint to emulsify it so that the 'shape' of the balls matches. The more paint used the more it will shrink. Do a test panel and compare, then change the mix slowly. Those of us who do a lot of this can look at the old and get close on the first try by spraying less densely then hitting it again lightly once the first round is dry. Light natural sponge texture is the worst because you really need that exact sponge which of course you don't have. Buy a few and 'pick' out little chunks of sponge till yours is as close as you can get. If you get good at this you can charge high prices because the only alternative is a complete re-do of the whole area. And darn few guys are really good at this :D

Most of my current mud work is repairs, and I now use 20 minute setting compound for all of it (only on the finest work do I use bucket mud for the finish coat), It dries hard making it tough to sand (don't believe what the bag says about this) so you need to keep it low and clean. It may take 5 coats this way but you're still out of there in an hour or less and there's less sanding dust to clean up. This stuff will teach you how to work fast and finish well. Or at least as well as you can.

My Mom got mad when I played with mud but now I get paid to do it :mrgreen:
Phil

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