solid wood flooring multiple rooms

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stevejd
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solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Wed May 30, 2018 9:00 am

I have a solid wood floor project for entire first floor, including kitchen in the planning as a DIY'r. I've been reviewing best wall to start with which is decided to be front of house foyer, living room. This is the longest wall, front of house. The foyer leads into a family room with an entrance into the kitchen to the right. The living room leads to dining room with another entrance into kitchen from this side.
My question is how deal with these two kitchen entrances from both sides? I planned to extend the planks into the kitchen entrances from each side but how will I keep these aligned as I finish in the kitchen. I get this is hard to interpret without picture of floor plan so I'm attaching a picture I drew floor plan to calculate my sq. feet.
Thanks!
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A. Spruce
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by A. Spruce » Wed May 30, 2018 9:47 am

You snap yourself a series of reference chalk lines and you measure to those lines every few planks and adjust as you install the floor.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Wed May 30, 2018 11:07 am

seems like that would leave gaps or maybe I'm not understanding.
One idea I had was to start in both directions when in the kitchen from each entrance & work towards each wall. I think that requires adding a spline in the groove side. Any unevenness would be at walls where I finish. I still have the issue of meeting these two sections.

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by A. Spruce » Wed May 30, 2018 11:58 am

it's always difficult to make things line up well when you have an obstacle in the middle. This is why you establish reference points and continually measure as you install the flooring. You can make minor adjustments as you work to keep things on track.

Now, establishing reference points before you start is probably going to be tricky, but it's doable. Set perpendicular lines off your starting line (referenced off starting wall) all the way across the house. Notice I said starting line and not starting wall. You're going to find that the wall is not straight, nor are any perpendicular walls perfectly square, so, you snap your start line 1 plank plus your wall gap distance. From this line you snap perpendicular lines across the house.

How do you establish a perfect 90 degrees? There's a couple ways, use the rule of 3-4-5, one leg is a measurement of 3, one leg is 4, and one leg will be 5. The larger you can make this triangle, the more accurate your perpendicular lines will be, simply multiply each number equally, for example, 6-8-10, or 9-12-15.

Another way to do it will be to use a fresh sheet of plywood, which is accurate enough to get you by.

Laying from two directions is not going to give you the results you're looking for.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by Shannon » Wed May 30, 2018 9:24 pm

As Spruce says you need some reference lines . I would suggest a line every 2-3’. I would get started and have about 2-3 rows done and measure your reference lines from there. The lines are not needed to be exact positions of a row but just a straight line to measure from to be sure you ware staying straight.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by A. Spruce » Wed May 30, 2018 9:28 pm

As you are laying the floor, keep pulling a measure from your start point to make sure both sides are progressing evenly
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Thu May 31, 2018 1:17 pm

Thanks to both of you, it's starting to make sense. only have the hallway into family room on left side to measure and compare to living room side. no pressure!
how do I get the 1st line for first row? if I measure from wall which could not be true that is not a good start. Do you have the 3 4 5 rule in a video?

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by Shannon » Thu May 31, 2018 8:10 pm

You have to pick something as being straight and go with it. It is very likely that not all walls will be parallel so you just have to deal with that . I would start by making a mark 1” from the wall at the two extreme corners. Snap a line from one mark to the other . You can then measure at many points along that line back to the wall to see how straight that wall is. From that you can determine a new measurement from those same corners for the first row of flooring. You need to retain the proper min. spacing to the wall that is required but also keep it from not getting so wide that the baseboard will not cover it.
Does this make sense?
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by A. Spruce » Thu May 31, 2018 9:39 pm

stevejd wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:17 pm
Do you have the 3 4 5 rule in a video?
Shannon covered your first question, so I'll field your second one.

Shannon does have a video on this subject. Just imagine a right triangle, which is a triangle with a 90 degree corner. A triangle has two legs and a hypotenuse, which is a fancy name for a third leg. Let's call those corner points A, B, and C.

Point A is the 90 degree corner.
Leg 1, from points A to B will measure 3.
Leg 2, from points A to C will measure 4.
Leg 3, from points B to C will measure 5.

That's it, that's all there is to it. To make a larger triangle, multiply 3, 4, and 5 by the same factor. As long as the 3-4-5 relationship is maintained, you will always have a 90 degree triangle.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by Shannon » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:37 am

opps I forgot about the 3 4 5 question.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:38 am

Shannon wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:37 am
opps I forgot about the 3 4 5 question.
Slacker! :roll: ;) :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:50 am

Yes makes sense. Still concerned I have this! Coming into kitchen with 3 walls in the way and a stairway and staying straight with rows is making me nervous. Seems the key will be several measurements each side and starting with a straight 1st row.

I bought 2 1/2" coarse exterior wood screws to fix some loud floor squeaking. Are these too long? I have 3/4" plywood.
I read online not to use drywall screws since they are brittle.

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:02 am

This is why it's important to make your reference lines. I don't remember how detailed we got with this, so I'll add this here, you not only want your starter line at the wall, you need to snap perpendicular lines from the start line through the doorways.

Looking back at your floor plan.

1 - Snap a start line along the front wall, from foyer through living room.
2 - Snap a line from the foyer through the family room that is perpendicular to the start line.
3 - Snap a line from the family room through the kitchen.
4A - Snap a line along the living room/dining room wall that is perpendicular to the start line.
4B - With line 4A in place, measure out from start line to the center of the kitchen/dining room door and make a mark. Do the same on line 4A, this should give you a perpendicular line without having to do the 3-4-5 method. Snap this line through the kitchen.
5 - The two lines coming into the kitchen from dining room and family room should be parallel, if they are not, go back and check all your intersections to make sure they're perpendicular. Having a second pair of hands to help set the snap line and measure the 3-4-5 method will be of great value.

This will give you an accurate grid of reference lines to take your measurements from and keep your floor on track.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by Shannon » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:35 pm

The 2-1/2" screws are over kill for sure. 2" would do. Be sure that if you sue the longer ones that there is nothing in the floor joists close enough that those screws would puncture it.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:12 am

General rule of thumb, fastener should be twice as long as whatever it's going through, in this case 3/4" subfloor would need 1-1/2" screws. Make sure you get screws that have a shank on them so that they will slip in the plywood and draw it down tightly to the floor joist. If you get full thread screws, they will simply pull themselves through the plywood without tightening it to the joist.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm

Thanks guys- been on vacation out of town. in response to the 1 - 5 steps my entrances to kitchen are opposite corners of kitchen. I'll reread the steps to see if I can adapt them but of you have any advise differently let me know.

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:50 pm

I got it- you said parallel lines in kitchen so I can measure distance is equal between these.

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:09 pm

stevejd wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:50 pm
I got it- you said parallel lines in kitchen so I can measure distance is equal between these.
Correct, as long as all your layout lines stay perfectly perpendicular or parallel to each other, you will be able to use them as references to keep your flooring installation on track.

I think it would be highly beneficial to use a brand new sheet of plywood to help set your perpendicular lines. The factory edges on the sheet are square enough to really help you get your lines where they need to be. A helper is really a must here as well, an extra set of hands or two will be so much easier and more accurate to set your lines properly.

One last tip, use blue chalk to snap your lines. Red is basically a dye color and you won't be able to "erase" it if you need to relocate a misplaced line. Blue will sweep away well enough that a new line will stand out.

I believe that there are laser devices for shooting perpendicular lines, you'd have to do some research on this to be certain. Because of the intricacy of your layout, it will probably be well worth the investment to buy or rent such a laser.
Don't know if this one is any good, it was one of the first things that came up in a quick search to show you what I was talking about. They seem cheap enough, if they're accurate enough. With this, you could snap your first start line, then use the laser to locate your marks for snapping all other lines.
laser line projector
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by graysherry24 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:35 am

If you are going for the solid wood flooring in the kitchen then you need to keep one thing in mind that engineered wood flooring cannot be expand and contract to the same extent as solid wood flooring, which means that it will have a strong and pretty structure whatever your busy kitchen throws at it.

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:45 pm

Well, I should be ashamed of myself! I have not yet installed this floor. We had many issues picking material we both loved, not settled for. Even bought & returned some. I also got done many other projects. The good news we found something we love. I also removed the wall between dining room and kitchen so more open on that side.
We went with 5" solid 3/4" Hickory custom color being made now from a local mill in Ohio.
My questions now is does this wall being gone change any advice?

Second question is the mfg is not providing official pdf installation guidelines in regards to should I use nails and glue. Below is from mfg. Trying to get what I can in writing from them.
"Some of the guys will glue the first few rows when they start . It is your call as to the use of gluing down the total floor. Warranty covers defects in materials and workmanship. Installation of any product is not covered by warranty. As long as you leave spacing around the outside perimeter for expansion as with any flooring install, your house is a controlled environment as we spoke there should not be a problem."
I have read other post where advice is to follow mfg. guidelines but they are saying it's up to me. we live on northeast Ohio so we have our share of high humidity, changes in temps & humidity. Some mfg's say to use serpentine pattern on back. Some post I've seen suggest using combo method nail, glue with spaces between vapor barrier.
If I ask 3 different flooring installers I might get 3 different opinions. What do guys think?
Thanks,
Steve

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:27 pm

Are you following the manufacturer's recommendations? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :mrgreen:

It sucks when you can't get a straight answer. I have never nailed down a floor, but I can give you some information that might make your decision a little easier.

If you nail only, the planks will loosen over time and start squeaking on the nails. Nailing is a very fast method of installation because the board is attached, solid, and ready to install the next board.

If you glue only, you can only lay a few rows at a time and have to use ratchet straps to hold the rows together while the glue dries. Technically, you would lay 3 or 4 starter rows, let it sit 24 hours to cure, then you can lay about as much as you like, but you still have to clamp it with ratchet straps and the wider area you have, the more inclined the ratchet strap is to lift the floor up out of the glue, so you will probably only lay about 5 or 6 feet of width at a time.

If you nail AND glue, then the nails will hold the boards in place while the glue dries. Expansion and contraction won't pull the nails as badly, and the glue will keep the board from flexing, so squeaks over time are a lot less likely.

Side note, when nailing flooring you want to nail at roughly a 45 degree angle through the tongue. The nail head should set flush or just below the surface, do not over drive the nails, as this weakens the nails ability to hold. Because you're nailing through the tongue, you need to start your layout so that the majority of your flooring is laid "tongue out". There will be instances where you have to work backwards and nail in the groove, which can be done, it's just no fun and much harder to do, which is why you want to choose your layout carefully to minimize groove work.

You might want to consider hiring a pro flooring installer for a day, have them show you how to do it, then you can finish the floor by yourself. Be sure to ask plenty of questions, such as how do you work around doors (exterior especially), cabinets, and other obstacles that you will encounter as you finish the project on your own.

You will need to buy some tools, the primary thing being the brackets that you hook the ratchet straps to. Again, a pro can help you figure out what you're going to need for your install environment.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by Shannon » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:30 pm

I have never glued a wood floor. I use staples instead of nails , they have a little better holding power IMO.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:15 am

A. Spruce- Yea i was planning on nailing not glue only, hence the question should I nail & glue.
Thanks
Shannon- never glues.
The idea of gluing with serpentine pattern in addition to using staples is what I'm considering.
Some mfg's suggest this if 4" or wider solids.
Maybe if I get a majority vote one method over the other I'll choose that.
Thanks to all.

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:11 am

If you are applying the glue directly to the plank as you lay it, then serpentine, if you spread the glue on the floor to lay the plank into, then trowel the glue perpendicular or angular to the direction that the planks are laid. The reason for this is that you're grabbing the board across the grain, a much stronger hold, than if you only go with the grain.
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:24 am

Shannon can you reply as well?
Glue and nail or nail only?

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by Shannon » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:31 am

I see Spruces point of the glue helping fix the boards in place and do think it is a good idea but I would also staple/nail the wood.This is going to be a large project to bite off and you don't want it dragging out any longer then it needs to. mechanical fastening as well as glue will speed the process up over glueing only.
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stevejd
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:38 am

i never suggested I'd glue only.
Thanks

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:40 pm

trying to get started today. Question is I have taken wood subfloor moisture reading of .08%
The 3/4" 5" wide solid flooring reads 8.8%
Why is my subfloor so dry? I read it's okay to install if within a 2% variance between subfloor and flooring. The meter is $12 Menards with a 1% accuracy.
Is it possible my subfloor is really that dry and do I need to worry about this in anyway?
Most of what I read online talk more about a high reading on you flooring is danger but nothing about a very dry subfloor.

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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by Shannon » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:17 am

.08% seems kinda weird ? Did you take multiple tests in multiple areas? Also the 8.8% in the hardwood seems kinda high ,I believe that wide plank should be between 6-9 % so you are barely even dry enough.Take multiple tests on multiple boards here also. How long has the wood been in the room acclimating?
Here is a good article with info:https://www.wagnermeters.com/moisture-m ... vels-wood/
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Re: solid wood flooring multiple rooms

Post by stevejd » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:40 pm

Yes I did. I also measured some fire wood just to see if I some different readings & I did. I still don't fully trust the meter. it was the only one I could find locally in stock quickly.
The wood has been indoors here since Tuesday. it's not a new house ether.
The wood is hickory. Even today it was 8.8% still on multiple boards.
I was able to pick an installer's brain Saturday about the dryness of the subfloor, he said that's not surprising in an older house that has been dry consistently.
The mfg. says it's kiln dried at 6% with a 2% variance. I'm using Aquabar b underlayment. I had a neighbor who was available today for 4 hours to help me get started & we laid 4 rows. I'd love to keep going now & off work all next week.
I think I might try to get a better moisture meter before I install more. I'm at least 1% too wet.
What do ya think? Thanks :)
Spending about $8k on material makes me cautious.

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