Ontario Cold cellar question

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mopar44o
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Ontario Cold cellar question

Post by mopar44o » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:40 am

Hello everyone.

New member looking to get some guidance on a project with my cold cellar.

Just moved into this house. Previous owners had the cold cellar insulated with rigid foam board on the roof and the upper half of the walls. The above ground stuff I assume as the cold cellar is below the front porch. I would like to use it as a cold cellar again. I find them handy to have.

Well The roof insulation was sagging so I decided to tear it all down and re do it. That's when this project started to be the proverbial can of worms.

So under the roof portion of the rigid foam insulation was a metal sheet which I assume was there to support the concrete when they pored it.That has since rotted out. I pulled down all the big sagging pieces. The previous owner had a few holes drilled through to the outside so that he could run extension cords through :roll: . I'm assuming that the moisture came through those and rotted the metal.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qz0qc9e02dc7 ... 8.jpg?dl=0

I figured since its not structural and I guess its done its job I can just cover it up again with foam board again. I planed to use 1 or 2 in foam board glued to the concrete on the roof, the full wall which is on the inside of the house and the portion of the walls that are above ground exposed to the outside.

The other issue is what I thought were vents appear to not be.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yxgbo5a1qrnc ... 0.jpg?dl=0


https://www.dropbox.com/s/8isz9tdcgaa58 ... 5.jpg?dl=0


In the 2nd photo you can see that's the stamped concrete steps in front of the house through the hole.


On the outside there was what I thought was a vent. But there is nothing on that side of the cold cellar and it appears to be a fake vent.

So the question is are the vents required? None? 1? or 2? And is my plan sound?

Thanks a lot in advanced.

mopar44o
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:25 am

Re: Ontario Cold cellar question

Post by mopar44o » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:13 am

Also should add.

Has a heavy door which I'm assuming is solid and insulated with weather stripping on the bottom.

If venting is required can it be done through the door into the finished basement? Maybe two vents one on the top and one on bottom?

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Shannon
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Re: Ontario Cold cellar question

Post by Shannon » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:34 am

Well I think your insulation plan is fine . As far as venting I’m not sure why you would want to vent it into the warm basement? If anything you will want a cent to the exterior IMO.
The metal is likely rusted out because of frost creating moisture between the foam and underside of metal. If the foam was not a couple inches thick and sealed well warm moist air would have been getting to the cold under side of the roof.
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mopar44o
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Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:25 am

Re: Ontario Cold cellar question

Post by mopar44o » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:14 pm

Well In the last photo where u can see the exterior steps. It's moist in there and we just had rain yesterday. All he did to that space was stuff bit of foam board in there. So I wouldn't be surprised if moisture got in through there and did it.

Would you drill a vent? Or close it all up and see how it does?. I figured I'd spray foam those two holes up since they're not vents now anyways and it would stop air getting in-between the insulation and concrete on the roof. I guess I could technically close it all up now anyways as we're going into the winter and if mositure becomes a problem in the summer add the vent then?

Would you use EPS or XPS? I known EPS allows mositure to travel through easier but xps has a higher r value?

mopar44o
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Re: Ontario Cold cellar question

Post by mopar44o » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:30 pm

Ok so I think I settled how I'm going to do this.

I'm going to rent the drill and boring bit and put a 3in PVC pipe through the foundation for a vent. Because it will be close to the soil (not much of the cold cellar is above ground. I'll use a couple 90 deg elbows to bring the exit a bit higher to avoid water, dirt, snow, pest etc from getting in.

After I drill the hole I'll take great stuff and do the edges where the walls meet the roof and those holes and fill them.

Then I'll take the 2in foam board and glue it to roof. After it sets I'll do the full walls on the interior side and then about 2 feet down on the exterior sides.

I know technically you're supposed to cover foam board but being my cold cellar I'm not concerned so I'll probably just leave it.

As far as attaching the foam board LePage foam glue good enough? I can't find the anchors you used in your video. I wouldn't mind using something else to help anchor it but hopefully glue will be good enough.

After that, tuck tape joints. And I'll probably caulk along the bottom and where the vent is cut.

Anything I'm missing? Sound good?

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Shannon
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Re: Ontario Cold cellar question

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:19 am

Sounds like your plan will work fine. Either foam type will work also.
Hilti and Plastigrip are a couple of brands of the anchors. check local fasteners suppliers ,concrete supplies and ask at your lumber store. If they sell foam they should be able to get or have the fasteners.
Another option is a Tapcon screw and roofing washer to secure it.
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mopar44o
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Re: Ontario Cold cellar question

Post by mopar44o » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:47 pm

Pretty much done will post photos soon. Just got to tape joints and caulk the bottom of the boards on the wall.


Just looking at the labels for the caulking I have kicking around and none have any mention of foam board. I figured window and door caulking should work fine but is there something specific in case this would eat the foam?

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Shannon
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Re: Ontario Cold cellar question

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:29 pm

I would use canned sprayfoam to seal all edges and gaps.
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mopar44o
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Re: Ontario Cold cellar question

Post by mopar44o » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:52 pm

So all done. Used 2in foam on exterior and roof. Used 1 in on interior walls as that's what was their prior and in good shape still. So I just extended it to the floor. Plus looks like there's some insulation in the walls there on the other side so didn't think it needed 2in there.

Vent came out ok. When I measured it I forgot to add 2in to account for the foam on roof. Had to shave it a bit where it came in and then angle it down a bit with some 45 deg elbows.

Surprisingly it's hard to find a vent u can open and close. Got one of those duct ones do fit.

And the duct outside came out alright too.

Thanks for the help with the. Questions Shannon. Your videos have helped me a few times.

Where in Ontario do you work generally? Maybe I'll hire you on the next big project I don't want to tackle.
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Shannon
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Re: Ontario Cold cellar question

Post by Shannon » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:41 pm

I am in Saskatchewan actually
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