Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

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limehful
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Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by limehful » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:22 pm

Hi Shannon,

I'm a bit stuck as to what I should do right now after I've completed the framing in my basement. I realized the wall connected to this metal pipe was supposed to ideally be built using 2x6 rather than 2x4 so the edge of my frame as seen in image 2 doesn't match the outer edge of the support beam.

My questions are:

1. Do I need to remove all my walls to re-frame this wall as a 2x6 wall or is there another alternative for me? Is there a possibility of adding a 2x2 wall to the 2x4 wall making a 2x6 wall? Sorry if that's a dumb question. (My reasoning is if I framed with 2x6 initially the frame behind the pole in image 3 would have been flush on both sides of the beam above)

2. How do I frame around this pole properly in order to do the dry wall?

3. In image 1 I have a piece of wood between the 2 front studs. Is it beneficial to do this to all my studs (Add a "support" piece between them).

4. in image 4 I have a piece of wood that's curved (the drawing is exaggerated) is there anyway I can straighten this or do I need to remove the entire frame and take that piece out?

Any help is greatly appreciated. If possible could you use simple terms in a response I've had one response to this that I wasn't really able to understand due to the wording I'm a novice.

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A. Spruce
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:49 pm

limehful wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:22 pm
1. Do I need to remove all my walls to re-frame this wall as a 2x6 wall or is there another alternative for me? Is there a possibility of adding a 2x2 wall to the 2x4 wall making a 2x6 wall? Sorry if that's a dumb question. (My reasoning is if I framed with 2x6 initially the frame behind the pole in image 3 would have been flush on both sides of the beam above)
If I'm following you correctly, the metal jack post is slightly offset to your framed wall. Is there a reason that the framed wall can't be moved the fraction of an inch to be flush with the side of the steel post? I would move the wall if possible, if not, fur out the wall with whatever thickness you need to be flush with the post.
limehful wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:22 pm
2. How do I frame around this pole properly in order to do the dry wall?
Is this where the wall ends or does it continue past the post? If this is the end, I'd extend the drywall past the post and install a 2x4 held by the drywall to encapsulate the post. Thing is, that post is adjustable, and I would assume that you'd want to maintain access to the adjuster, which could easily be done by leaving a gap at the top of the drywall to access the adjuster and cover the gap with trim.

If the wall continues past the post, simply continue the wall, the drywall will span the gap in framing where the post lives without issue.
limehful wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:22 pm
3. In image 1 I have a piece of wood between the 2 front studs. Is it beneficial to do this to all my studs (Add a "support" piece between them).
Blocking between studs isn't necessary unless there is no other way to secure them.
limehful wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:22 pm
4. in image 4 I have a piece of wood that's curved (the drawing is exaggerated) is there anyway I can straighten this or do I need to remove the entire frame and take that piece out?
If the bow is side to side in the stud bay, no worries. If the bow bulges out into the room, then replace it with a straight stud. You can simply knock the stud in question out and toe-nail in a new one, no need to take down the wall for the repair.
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Shannon
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:38 am

At this point I would simply "fur out" the one side of the wall to make it flush to the outside of the wood beam which will allow drywall to pass post. "fur out" just refers to adding a layer of lumber to the existing wall to make it thicker.

Whatever thickness this was ends up being then rip a 2x6 down to that same size and I would just glue it to the side of the post with construction adhesive. Use clamps to hold it in pace until dry then you can screw drywall right to it. This is all assuming the post is plumb.

Blocking is not necessary on non load bearing walls but can be useful for straightening slightly crooked lumber.

Spruce had the same answer as I would have.
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limehful
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by limehful » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:05 am

@A.Spruce,

Thanks for the detailed response I'll just respond to some of your comments below:

1. The framed wall is already connected to soffits and another wall which is why I didn't want to pull the wall in to match the other side if possible.

2. The metal pole will be the end of the wall. If I'm understanding correctly I should add a 2x4 to the edge of the metal pole and connect that 2x4 by drywall? Should I be fixing the 2x4 down with anything else or is it just going to be connected to the drywall?

I have another question about furring if I'm understanding correctly I should add 2x2 fur strips to the frame I've built. Do these fur strips just get nailed/screwed into the frame?

@Shannon,

Thanks for the response!

So I'd screw/nail (not sure which) the 2x2 furring strips onto my existing frame which would make it into a 2x6 frame. Then get a 2x6 and glue that to the metal post? (What kind of glue should I be using?) If I do glue to the metal post wouldn't the outstretched metal plate above pose a problem for drywall that has to go there?

Thanks for all the help!

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A. Spruce
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:40 am

limehful wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:05 am
1. The framed wall is already connected to soffits and another wall which is why I didn't want to pull the wall in to match the other side if possible.
As I was answering your questions and studying the pix, I saw that it was not possible to move the wall, which is why I suggested furring the wall out to accommodate the post.
limehful wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:05 am
2. The metal pole will be the end of the wall. If I'm understanding correctly I should add a 2x4 to the edge of the metal pole and connect that 2x4 by drywall? Should I be fixing the 2x4 down with anything else or is it just going to be connected to the drywall?
Yes, that is what I was suggesting. Shannon had a good idea about gluing the stud to the metal post with construction adhesive, which will solidly secure the 2x. To glue the post, run your drywall past the metal post first, then apply the adhesive, then push the stud into the adhesive, then screw the drywall to the stud, lt the glue cure, then cut the drywall flush with the face of the stud. This will insure perfect alignment of everything with the least amount of hassle.
limehful wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:05 am
I have another question about furring if I'm understanding correctly I should add 2x2 fur strips to the frame I've built. Do these fur strips just get nailed/screwed into the frame?
You only need as much furring as it takes to get around the metal post. Having said that, for trim purposes, you may want to stick with standard dimensions for the total width of the wall. This means adding 2" to a standard 2x4 (3-1/2" actual width) to create a 2x6 (5-1/2" actual width). You will have to custom rip these strips OR use a 2x2 with a strip of 1/2" plywood to get an actual 2" furring.

The furring can be nailed or screwed, your choice, with a 3" or longer fastener, every 18" to 24" from top to bottom of the stud. You want to securely fasten the furring so that it can adequately hold the drywall. You can glue the furring to the studs if you want, personally, I don't think this is a necessary step.
limehful wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:05 am
So I'd screw/nail (not sure which) the 2x2 furring strips onto my existing frame which would make it into a 2x6 frame. Then get a 2x6 and glue that to the metal post? (What kind of glue should I be using?) If I do glue to the metal post wouldn't the outstretched metal plate above pose a problem for drywall that has to go there?
See my last statements re: fasteners and gluing to metal post. Type of glue, any construction adhesive that is rated for wood to metal use, which is just about any of them. I like Liquid Nails, Shannon generally recommends PL products. It really depends on what you have readily available to you.

As for the metal plate issue, you can fur the header to accommodate the plate OR notch the back of the drywall so that it overlaps the plate. Install the header drywall first, not worrying about fasteners on/over the metal plate, the vertical drywall on the stud will support it just fine. When everything gets taped and mudded, it will be strong and secure.
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limehful
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by limehful » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:11 pm

@A.Spruce,

Thank you so much for all the help. I believe I understand almost all the guidance you have provided me except for the last part regarding the metal plate. What is the "header" that you're referring to? I've never done drywall so this part is very new to me. If I'm going to place the drywall on top of the metal plate won't the fasteners and screws make it so there's a bulge at that spot?

Also just to make sure I'm understanding correctly. The 1/2" of plywood would be cut 2x1/2" and that would be the furring strip so that the 2x6 will have an actual width of 6"

Thanks again!

Edit: This is a bit off topic but referring to this post: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8820&p=46132&hilit=recessed#p46132

Did you install these inside of recessed cans? I'm currently looking into the lighting for my basement and I was going to install some Halo 6" LED lights as well.

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Shannon
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:46 pm

Spruce pretty much covered it all.
I will add that that metal plate does present a small challenge. Because it is likely 3/8" thick I would not carve out the back of the drywall as Spruce suggested You will just have a mess after.
you could do a few different things:
#1 move the end stud out just past that plate ,screw it to the beam and fasten it to the floor or build up blocks against the post and glue it all together as well as to floor. Does not have to be pretty just plumb and solid.
#2 install a double layer of drywall on underside of beam to avoid the plate.
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limehful
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by limehful » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:01 pm

Awesome thanks, another question for my 2x2 fur strips is it best to build another frame like my 2x4 frame out of them and then nail/screw this into the 2x4 frame or can I just take 2x2's and screw them into each stud top to bottom?

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Shannon
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:38 pm

Just attach then directly to the top and bottom plates and all studs.
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A. Spruce
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:53 pm

limehful wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:11 pm
Thank you so much for all the help. I believe I understand almost all the guidance you have provided me except for the last part regarding the metal plate. What is the "header" that you're referring to? I've never done drywall so this part is very new to me. If I'm going to place the drywall on top of the metal plate won't the fasteners and screws make it so there's a bulge at that spot?
Whatever the metal post is supporting, header, beam, bulkhead, it's overhead and a support structure. Shannon is correct, that the thickness of that metal plate, post plate, and bolt heads is more than what 1/2" or 5/8" drywall will cover, so you'll need two layers of drywall, one cut to the end of the plate and a second layer to overlap the plates and hardware. You could also extend the wall out another few inches by doubling or tripling the stud you attach to the steel post to get you out past the plates and simplify the installation of drywall on the beam/bulkhead.
limehful wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:11 pm
Also just to make sure I'm understanding correctly. The 1/2" of plywood would be cut 2x1/2" and that would be the furring strip so that the 2x6 will have an actual width of 6"
The 1/2" plywood would be cut into 1-1/2" strips and applied to the studs in addition to the 2x2 (1-1/2"x1-1/2" actual dimension). The cumulative measurement of the 2x4 stud, 1/2" plywood strip, and 2x2 would be equal to a 2x6 (1-1/2"x 5-1/2" actual dimension). An alternative would be to rip 2x material into actual 2" strips and attach those, just depends on what you have handy and your abilities to run a saw. Personally, I'd just rip down some 2x into the dimension I needed over buying 2x2 and plywood.

To be clear, dimensional lumber is 1/2" undersized, i.e., a 2x4 is actually only 1-1/2" x 3-1/2", a 2x6 is actually only 1-1/2" x 5-1/2". This is where your confusion of why you can't just add a 2x2 (1-1/2"x1-1/2" actual dimension) furring strip is coming from. I hope this explanation helps.
limehful wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:11 pm
Edit: This is a bit off topic but referring to this post: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8820&p=46132&hilit=recessed#p46132

Did you install these inside of recessed cans? I'm currently looking into the lighting for my basement and I was going to install some Halo 6" LED lights as well.
No, those are remodel style lights that are designed for replacing existing "junction box" wired lights or adding a new light where no box currently exists. You do not need a box or can for this light, it has it's own junction box integrated onto it, you only need your control wiring routed to the light location. If you buy one of these, just make sure it's IC rated, which means it's meant to be in contact with insulation. Being an LED light, it shouldn't be a problem, but make sure it's got that label on the box before you buy.
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A. Spruce
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:56 pm

Shannon already answered, but I'll ditto his comment, just attach the furring strips directly to the studs, vertically, so as to thicken the entire stud.
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limehful
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by limehful » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:32 pm

I'd like to thank everyone again for the help I have another question to build onto this one. I ended up (due to OCD) removing the frame and I am now in the process of building a new frame from 2x6's.

My question is that when I frame this wall it will hit the interior edge of the pole but the steal plate at the top of the wall that connects the metal pole to the upper beam is quite thick. How do I go about fitting my frame underneath this plate? Would it be okay to build my 2x6 frame and then trimming a part of the top off the frame off to fit? Or are there other alternatives? I have tried to draw what I am describing in the image attached.

Thanks again!

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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:36 pm

You don't need a continuous plate line, the header/beam is stabilizing the wall already. As long as the stud spacing isn't over 24" it will be fine.
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by Shannon » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:47 pm

Yes so as Spruce is suggesting you could cut out that section of top plate altogether if you wanted . If you don't like that you could simply shave out a chunk of the top plate so that it will clear the plate easily. By cutting series of saw kerfs at the right dept close together you could then chisel out the remaining pieces to from the notch you need.
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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by limehful » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:57 am

Hi guys,

Awesome so I can just saw off a chunk of the top plate and that should be fine? Would it be smart of me to add another 2x6 brace just beneath that piece for a little support or completely unnecessary?

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Re: Metal Pole and Skinny Frame

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:19 pm

If you want a stud right up against the steel post, then cut your top plate at the metal plates, then install a block against the top plate that extends to the post in which to attach your stud.
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