Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

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WGlaser
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Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by WGlaser » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:14 pm

Hi!
I'm in the tail end of framing my 12'x16' free standing deck which is only 24" above grade. The 16' side is against the house, with two beams running parallel with the house at 2' and 10' from the side of the house. This means I have 2 2' cantilevers - one between the first beam and the house, and one after the second beam. I cantilevered since I have a brick veneer house and can't access the space behind it. All lumber (2 ply beams and joists) are #1 SYP 2x10s.

I planned to hang some stringers off the far 16' side for a 4' wide set of stairs, but I am now realizing I may have an issue since the deck is cantilevered. Since the deck is already framed, digging some extra post holes for extra support would be rather difficult. Any ideas, or am I okay just to use the Simpson stair stringer hangers on my rim joist? I could also do some sort of box stair so the deck isn't supporting as much load, as it is a relatively short step. I'll also add that I was initially planning to have my top stair run even with the deck so I don't have to worry about a hanger board or anything.
All joists are connected with Simpson joist hangers and hurricane clips.

I'll note that this deck is being permitted, and has thus far passed the permitting process so no one in the office thought about it.


DanM
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by DanM » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:35 pm

You'll be fine hanging a small set of stringers like that off your deck.

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Shannon
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by Shannon » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:09 pm

Yup, install your stairs as normal.
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WGlaser
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by WGlaser » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:08 am

Thanks guys! Just realized if I go flush with the deck on the top step, I'll have four rises and need a handrail. I'd love to avoid the handrail and go three rises by having the top step be a full rise lower, but with a 2x10 rim joist I'll need to get creative to have enough space for the hanger. Is a hangerboard attached to the rim with carriage bolts still the best/most advised method for this?

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A. Spruce
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:20 pm

IMHO, resting the stringers against the face of the joist/hanger board is the strongest way to go. Technically, the top "step" of the stringer would be part of the deck, simply extend your decking over the top of the stringer.

If you don't want to go this way, then cut the top step deeper by the thickness of your joist/hanger board and put the riser behind the hanger board. The reason I don't like this method is that the riser is diagonal end grain and the weight and load of the steps is hanging from it, as opposed to supporting the stringer from the bottom/end which gives you the uncut portion of the stringer to do all the work. It's hard to explain, but if you look at the grain of the board after you've cut the stringer, you'll understand what I'm saying.
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WGlaser
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by WGlaser » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:36 pm

I've seen that idea you've talked about, going under the rim joist, but I agree, it doesn't seem the best.

The plan I mentioned involves hanging a board below the rim joist to increase the surface area so the stringer can rest against the side of he deck as normal. I attached a picture (courtesy of thisiscarpentry.com) where they hung a 2x below the rim joist with thruloks and 4x4s so the stairs could rest as normal. Thoughts?
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A. Spruce
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:15 pm

Yes, it would work fine to do something like that.

I just built some stairs for a client and did as I suggested earlier, the top "step" of the stringer was incorporated into the deck, eliminating the need for the extra hanger board.
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WGlaser
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by WGlaser » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:40 pm

Thanks! Although having the top tread level with the deck will work, it'll also give me four rises which means I need a handrail to pass code, which would be silly as the rest of the deck won't have one. I'll try doing something similar to the hanging board, shouldn't be too challenging.

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A. Spruce
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:08 pm

As far as I know, railing requirements have to do with deck height, not the number of steps you have.
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DanM
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by DanM » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:24 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:08 pm
As far as I know, railing requirements have to do with deck height, not the number of steps you have.
Ya same thing around here. 24" or less from the ground and you don't need a railing, anything higher you do.

WGlaser, I'd double check your local codes. Most places I've heard of have the 24" above ground rule for whether or not a railing is required. Since your deck doesn't need one, and you had no problems getting a permit for it without a railing in the design, chances are your stairs shouldn't need one either. But who knows sometimes bylaws are stupid and nonsensical.

WGlaser
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by WGlaser » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:36 pm

Here's a screenshot from NC residential codebook. I'll note this is not the deck section, but the deck section is just a short appendix that references the rest of the codebook. As it reads, stairs with 4 rises but less than 30 inches requires a handrail...but no guard.
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A. Spruce
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:01 pm

What is your height from the ground landing to the surface of the deck? I've got my stairbuilders handbook here and can look up the riser/tread dimensions for any given height, there might be one that is suitable to 3 risers.
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Shannon
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Re: Stair stringers attached to cantilevered deck

Post by Shannon » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:13 pm

I have never seen handrails required by the amount of risers? But different places have different ideas. As I read that it is 4 risers so even the last rise weather it is to the top of the tread or the top of the deck that is still a rise. You said before you are 24" off the ground so you could easily go three rises of 8 inches on a deck stair. this would keep you under the 4 riser rule there. To get 4 risers you would have a 6" rise that is fine also but it puts you back to installing a railing.
Something I do (not sure if I did it in the deck stair video?) is attach a plywood riser board on the top step area and then I can use that to attach to the deck rim.

Just looked up the video and in that situation I had enclosed the deck and was able to attach the stringers to that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwplbhmgoBg
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