Misplaced support posts and incompetent contractors

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A. Spruce
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:16 am

No, the fascia can be used to tie the rafters to the header.
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:37 pm

Thanks Sprucey! But somehow I can't visualize and understand this little sentence...

Ok, I guess that first the rafters need to get tied to the header, after the flats or notches are cut. So do you mean the header can then be tied (with hurricane brackets?) to the fascia? This would mean the header needs to be right next to the fascia. I had wondered if it'd be ok to install the header maybe 10 inches to 1 ft way from the header, so that there'd be enough space to cut the flats/notches without going to the trouble of removing the 16' fascia and then reinstalling it... (?)

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:43 pm

Sorry about typo:
"I had wondered if it'd be ok to install the header maybe 10 inches to 1 ft way from the FASCIA, so that there'd be enough space to cut the flats/notches without going to the trouble of removing the 16' fascia and then reinstalling it... (?)

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:20 pm

Vivian wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:43 pm
Sorry about typo:
"I had wondered if it'd be ok to install the header maybe 10 inches to 1 ft way from the FASCIA, so that there'd be enough space to cut the flats/notches without going to the trouble of removing the 16' fascia and then reinstalling it... (?)
The point of cutting the flats on the rafters is to give them full support on the header. This does a number of positive things, that I won't confuse the issue with, that resting the corner of the rafter on the corner of the header does not, even if you use metal ties.

From your pix, the header will be installed against the back of the fascia, so the fascia itself can be used in place of the metal ties.

Something you said earlier that needs to be clarified. You said that the fascia was added by contractor #1, which would indicate that the roof sheathing does not extend out over the top of the fascia, it should to make sure water gets shed properly and isn't wicked back to cause rot problems. At the very least, the new metal roofing you're installing needs to extend out past the face of the fascia by at least 1/2".
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Shannon » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:09 pm

I actually think cutting the flats (birds mouths/seat cuts) further back would be fine. It would be no different then a normal rafter that sits on the wall or header and extends past for roof over hang. You will obviously have to move your posts back also which will steal seating room under the roof though .
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:08 pm

Shannon wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:09 pm
You will obviously have to move your posts back also which will steal seating room under the roof though .
That's why I didn't offer this, the posts were already set. I also think that notching a bird's mouth will be a whole lot more difficult overhead than simply cutting a flat. Ultimately, whatever works best for Viv and/or the person doing the repair. 8-)
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:36 pm

Shannon wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:09 pm
I actually think cutting the flats (birds mouths/seat cuts) further back would be fine. It would be no different then a normal rafter that sits on the wall or header and extends past for roof over hang. You will obviously have to move your posts back also which will steal seating room under the roof though .
Oh I'm glad to hear this, means no need to undo the installed fascia. I don't mind having the posts moved back - this roof overhang is really just for parking stuff like bicycle, lawnmower, power washer, shop vac, etc. Not a pretty area for sitting... :)

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:39 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:20 pm
Vivian wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:43 pm

From your pix, the header will be installed against the back of the fascia, so the fascia itself can be used in place of the metal ties.

Something you said earlier that needs to be clarified. You said that the fascia was added by contractor #1, which would indicate that the roof sheathing does not extend out over the top of the fascia, it should to make sure water gets shed properly and isn't wicked back to cause rot problems. At the very least, the new metal roofing you're installing needs to extend out past the face of the fascia by at least 1/2".
Yep,right now the fascia has no sheathing above it. I will make sure the new metal roofing will extend out past fasia by 1"
Thanks guys for all your advice! Wish I found you before hiring the first one...

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:42 pm

Actually the plan is also install new gutters on the extended roof overhang - there was no gutter there before, I guess previous owners thought the trees shield much of the rain on that side.
There was just a gutter on the left side.

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:01 pm

You don't want more than 1/2" - 3/4" of roofing overhang into the gutter, otherwise you can't get in there to clean the gutters and you run the risk of water overshooting the gutter.
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:42 am

Ah ok, thanks Spruce. So more is not better...

I have new questions about a newish topic: What usually gets underlayed under a concrete pad, and in my case, a concrete pad for 10'x12' shed. Just poly?

My friend thinks that the plastic-like material that's sticking out from under the concrete pad, should be pulled out. Should we pull it out, or just trim off the parts sticking out? Would this be good to do? Or just leave it alone? It's been there for many years... Please see photos. It appears just around the bottom of the front wall. I guess it acts as a moisture barrier? If yes then I guess we should leave it alone?
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:09 am

I can't really see it. My guess is that it is some sort of moisture barrier.

For a shed, pouring right over the ground is probably fine, a little frost heave really shouldn't be an issue, especially if you've got good drainage around the shed so that water doesn't collect and freeze. Had your been permitted as occupied space, the requirements would have been much different.
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Shannon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:06 am

Just cut off the excess , not sure how you would actually remove it from under the shed which is what it sounded like one of your plans was.
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:29 am

Ok I'll cut off the excess. My friend had suggested we pull out as much as we can...

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:35 am

Ok if I ask yet more questions? I'm learning so much from you guys! :)

This one is about "Interior" but I'll ask it here:
When framing the ceiling for a building 10'x12' (with 2"x4" studs), would it be good to use 2x4x10 ceiling joists, or should we use 2x6x10? I plan to use Rockwool insulation in the ceiling and all walls.

And, is it necessary to install two vents in the small attic/ceilling space, or is one enough?

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:45 am

A 2x6 would be the better bet for that span.

Not sure on the amount of venting you will need. I would be inclined to install a gable vent on either end (two in total), which will allow the attic to breathe, but it's not going to actually flow any air for cooling purposes. For air flow, you will also need soffit venting. On a normal house, soffit vents are installed every 4 to 6 feet, I'd say you could get away with two on either side.

Soffit venting allows air to enter low, gable vents allow air to exhaust high. Heat rises, creating natural convective air flow. Not sure how crazy you really need to get with such a small structure that is shaded by trees, so shouldn't have much heat build up in the attic.

Curious what Shannon's take on this will be.
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Shannon » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:56 am

We love questions !

The minimum standard is 1square foot of roof venting for every 300 sq.’ Of ceiling area. Most turtle roof vents are each 1sq.’ Each. But they should be labeled as to how much they are. Usually they are labeled in Sq.” (144sq”= 1sq’). You should have at least double the amount of eave soffit venting compared to roof venting.

I agree with Spruce hat 2x6x10’ would be much better for the ceiling joists for that span.
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:10 pm

Thanks so much, guys, for your recommendations on air vents and ceiling joist size.

Hee hee you love questions, here's another one!

Re: Appropriate extra width space for rough door opening
Well my friend made it over and removed one of the door framing studs because it the door rough opening is really to narrow at approx 34.5" . He removed a stud at right side, from front external view of door frame. So now the rough opening is 35+1/16". The pre-hung door I got is size 32", and 33+5/16" jamb to jamb. I read that recommendation extra space for rough opening is min. 3/4" to 1" wider than actual door jamb to jamb.

Could we, or should we, add a 1x6 to the rough opening, to fill up 3/4" of rough opening space. The 6" width will extend pass the OSB and out to support the siding... What do you think, will this work well, to 'hit two birds with one stone" (pad the door opening by 3/4" and have the stud extend out to serve as trim for the siding)???
I'll attach some pics of current door rough opening...
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:09 pm

An inch wider and taller than the door frame (jambs the door is hung in) will be sufficient, so long as the opening is plumb, if it isn't, then it will take more room to be able to plumb the door in the wonky opening.

As for using the 1x filler as something to attach your siding to, I would not recommend it. Keep all your framing behind the Tyvek, and install a trim board over the edge of the door jamb and flat onto the wall, butt your siding into that. Another issue with your plan is that you'd only have the 1x on one side, but not the top or other side, which will be a whole lot harder to deal with than if you had a symmetrical opening. Keep the 1x filler strictly a filler and add trim topically.
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:43 pm

Thanks Spruce, we'll have to check to see if the opening is plumb. And yes, of course, all framing has to be behind the Tyvek! Can't "double use" framing as external trim. I should have thought through this idea and know it would not work!

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:00 pm

About the rough door opening, I mistyped in my previous post that it was 34.5", but it was first framed at 33.5" (not 34.5) which is exactly the width of the pre-hung door jamb to jamb which is 33.5. 34.5 would have been perfect. I guess the first one figured he could just 'jamb' the door through the opening without shimming etc.

Anyway today my second window got installed. Yesterday I noticed that my friend caulked the bottom perimeter of the window, and I told him it's not supposed to be caulked; and, if it is caulked, it should be gap-caulked. Today the second window got installed with the bottom perimeter gap-caulked, but he "Blue-skinned" the bottom. I guess that the purpose of gap-caulking the bottom is to let any water that got in, have a path out. Now that both windows are Blue-skinned at the bottom (one fully caulked, and one gap-caulked), could I eventually have trapped moisture issues with my windows (?) The left wall window is most exposed to rain; the front window will have a roof overhang above the window if all gets done as planned.
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Shannon » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:05 am

I’m glad you corrected your earlier post cause I was going to chime in and say wait that original RO was wide enough! Lol.
Your door opening should have a header generally speaking and now that you removed that 2/4 what is supporting that end of the header?

Personally I don’t think you will have trouble with the window and moisture. You have sealed the entire thing with boy skin and caulk it really should not get in. As for condensation maybe forming in there and causing moisture, insulate the space around window with low expansion sprayfoam and you should keep that from happening .
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:14 pm

Shannon wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:05 am

Your door opening should have a header generally speaking and now that you removed that 2/4 what is supporting that end of the header?
Thanks for pointing out this issue, Shannon. Yep, the door header has no support at the left side (looking at it from inside the studio). I guess we will have to 'squeeze in' a 1x4 to support it
somehow.
Current rough opening is a touch over 35', door jamb to jamb is 33.5, 1x4 takes up .75", so we'd be left with .75" space, which means .375" gap on either side for shimming and low-expansion foam insulation. Will this be ok? I can't see any other way to solve problem of no support at left end of door header, can you?
Sorry the photo might load upside down...
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:17 pm

Rotate photo a quarter turn to right... : )

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:30 pm

Could we install some sort of metal bracket to support the door header?

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:51 pm

Remove the jack stud from both sides of the doorway, the jack studs are what support the header. Replace the jack studs with 1x, thus widening the opening by 1.5" and giving you plenty of space for the door, shims as necessary to stabilize door in opening (located at hinges and strike plate for maximum door strength), and spray foam.
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:06 pm

Ok thanks, Spruce. I'll give your recommendation to my new contractor...

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:10 pm

If you had any real load over that door, I'd recommend reframing the opening and header to the proper size. Fact is, in this instance, there isn't any real load there, so the reduced jack stud dimension will be fine.
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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Vivian » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:00 am

Ok it sounds like removing the 2x4 jack studs and replacing them with 1x4 will be the best solution.
And thanks for the picture - I get it! : )

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Re: Misplaced support posts

Post by Shannon » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:52 am

I would agree with Spruce. This would be one of the few times that using a 3/4” thick jack stud to support the header would be ok. As long as there is no real weight in that header. If the roof ridge is being supported by this header then you need to reframe the doorway so that you have 1-1/2” thick jack studs under both ends. The snow load in your area would be to high for anything less in this situation.
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