Replacing Bay Window

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Shannon
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:20 pm

Not sure who "they" are but I see no reason not to fasten the top nail fin.

Use the general purpose exterior silicones or really almost any exterior caulking .

This one will cut a 5/8" wide notch :https://www.amazon.ca/Malco-JCC50R-J-Cu ... J2C2171NSR
If you are only doing one window it really is not worth it. Make the cuts you need with snips or knife if you like.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:46 am

Oh just a number of different guys who I asked, a younger guy who worked construction, one guy works at building center, and I thought maybe I saw something about it on youtube too. But every one has a different opinion, some guys say only use 6 nails on the whole window kind of thing. Seems to be alot of different opinions in this buisness. Some guys say use blue skin, some say they dont care for it.

But all good, I just nailed every other space and screwed the rest so it is fastened in every hole. And had the quad max white sealant oozing out with about a 1/4 bead. I originaly used the silicone but didnt like the way it was sticking, I could only find interior/exterior silicone. So just decided to spend a bit more and go quad max, seems real good, and stands up to uv rays, and doesnt give off nasty smell apparently. The silicone seemed to set up to fast. Thanks for your help, appreciate and respect your opinion of experience.
The one smaller window is in and done. But the big one, I will try and seal today, if I can get it more level. I have noticed though, that the top of the window, casing in the middle seems to be bowed up. I wonder why? Maybe I had it stored on uneven ground to long or in the sun?
What I did is set the shims about 1/4 inch or 5/16 shims on the sill. Nailed them in place. Made sure they were level horizontally, and if not, shimmed with pcs of tar paper folded under neath.
Is that correct to set the level for shims first. Then install window.
Seems like its not vertical on the casing, so I wonder if its acceptable to tweat it a bit. Like get my horizonal nails in the bottom, then maybe pry it a bit to get it vertically level?
Or should I only set the horizontal and nail it all in place?
It almost seems like the window part will be level, but then the casing will not be. Vertically and horizontally. Is this common.
Also, the window said to frame it 1/2 bigger size rough opening, so im finding its a bit tight, I should have left a bit more room, maybe framed it 3/4 like my other window. Because I can see I will have trouble getting the spray foam straw in the top to spray all the way in behind. I am going to see if I can maybe cut a bit off the ship laps sticking down.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:55 pm

I think you are referring to the inside jambs when you say "casing"?
I work by myself all the time so i do prefer to install shims along bottom ,level them and tack in place. This way I can just slide window in install a couple fasteners to hold it and then go in and have a look and double check level and plumb. Sometimes the windows are not square so you may have to shim them tot week them a bit.
I do prefer to make my ROs 1" taller and wider then the window size.This gives extra room . 1/2" is very tight as you found out.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:46 am

I was refering to the window vinyl frame outer part, the part that surrounds the window, that actual outer frame. It seems like its not vertical, you know not always square, but horizontal in most spots, on the actual window part, but sometimes the frame wont be square or vertical. Some parts are square some are not. Im guessing this is not a big deal, its in the ball park or close, so maybe good enough. I will measure diagonals now and see if its square.
I wonder if I should pry it sideways at the top to make it vertical, and screw in place?
I am working by myself to, so this seems a good method to set the shims horizontal first.
Yea I just did what the HD windows called for, but yea looks a bit tight. Learn from experience. But if I go to big, then the nails or screws may not bite into the osb, header and framing fully.

I notice on my house, on the bottom of my vinyl siding, they ran aluminum flashing L shape. I wonder if I should reinstall this, if its needed at the bottom. So I run my starter strip at bottom first, then work my way up, and at top, I can use J chanel or the other one that jams it in place? I will watch videos of yours again.
Hey I notice in your vinyl video, you have foam board on outside of building too. It looks like you used larger washers with roofing nails to install the foam board? Could I do this or use screws maybe with large washers like you got there?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:28 pm

Sometimes the windows need a little manipulating but if you really have to force than i would leave well enough alone. Don't wanna break the window seal .

Not sure what the flashing was for but there are times you may need such things.

yes you have the basic steps correct for vinyl siding.

Screws or nails are fine for foam.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:44 am

So set horizontal sill shims, and set window in and leave the vertical level alone and nail it in place may be best?
Otherwise I have to pry on it, its only about 1/8 inch up left cover over from the inside, and it moves the outer casing or whole part the window sits in.

And the flashing sits up under the bottom of the wall, and covers the df ship lap and siding. Now if I put it back, it would cover the osb and ship lap under it, I have tar paper hanging over already, so I wonder if it should put it back on? I guess its just for splash back water or water dripping down off the siding. I guess If I have it I can use it. I would just hate for it to trap water though, if it ever got in behind the tar paper. But I guess its angled down.

I may use screws and washers for foam, and could I use wood screws for the vinyl siding slots? just a wood screw, or is that too loose? Seems like it would work.

And the foam board was installed vertically, I wonder if it matters if horizontal or vertically installed?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:56 pm

Yup just install window.
Flashing may just be for splash back like you suggested.
screws and washers is fine on foam ,vertical or horizontal install makes no difference.
If you use screws on the siding then they must either have a larger flat head (truss head) or use a washer but don't over tighten. shingle nails really is simplest.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:07 pm

Thanks.
I like the idea of screws, as then I can remove the foam easily if I need to in future.
Having nails, I had to pry on the foam board, with a pc of ply wood over top to not break it or squash in to much.
I would like to also use screws on vinyl siding for that reason.
I would think the screws would hold the siding?
I dont like the idea of using a washer with screws and vinyl siding, because then i wont be able to remove it from the slots, without removing whole screw...?

Watched your foam board exterior install video, thanks.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:11 pm

You worry about way to many things.Maybe you should leave the window out in case you wanna climb through the opening sometime? LOL, just kidding ya.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:30 pm

Why you ...
Ya true... i got to quit it...
But u wouldnt believe what i did after i put the sealant on and nailed and screws in the whole window.
Ya u guessed it. I will explain. It was worth it though

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:15 pm

I actually put the window in, sealed, then opened and closed the window, and when the window was barely just open, about 1/8 or so, you could see the gap from top to bottom was uneven, so really I should have pryed of window over to the right, and put shim in left side. So thats what I did, and it straightened it out, or plumbed it. I had to take out loosen most of the nails and screws, then pry away sealant. Anyhow its done. learned from that, to make sure to check the vertical small gap when you open the window to make sure its plumb. It may have not made any difference in the world, just being uneven slightly, i did not like it, would probably bother me.
And thanks. I can still get in the window if need be, like climb in through it, if i take the screen off. So im good there. So dont have to over think or worry about that part of this. haha

Hey Im going to buy the nails for siding, and foam, im thinking 1.5 inch or 1 3/4 inch to go through foam, osb and into the ship lap a bit. That should be the right length hey? Maybe just nails will be fine, i only liked screws if i was ever goona remove it. haha. But yea i can imagine they will be slow and nuisance. Maybe for foam i could.

I have the choice of either installing the j trim around window, now with the extra wide spares i have, or after, with the normal stuff.
So chalk line across, 1/4 inch up from osb bottom of wall? and mount the starter strip to that?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:01 pm

And on top of the wall against the soffit, do I run a j channel or under sill trim?
J channel you cant secure the siding in there?
Under sill trim you can have it be tight?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:38 am

You are using 1" foam I believe? So 1-3/4" to 2" nails.
I use a caulk line to follow for the starter but figure out your height to the top edge of the starter strip and mark the line there. it is just way easier to see while installing the starter. As far as the height you need to look at the siding on either side and determine the height you need.

Under the soffit I always use J channel. If I get the siding up to that point and the cut works out that I need undersill to clip the siding in tight then I add it inside of the J. I just think the J looks better over all instead of the flatter undersilll trim being exposed. If you don't wanna do that you can leave the trims off up there till you are up to that point and install what works best for the cut.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:21 pm

I am re installing the 3/4 foam board. So yea thanks, 1 1/2 to 1/34 will be good hey, so it wont go right through the wall, just bite into the 3/4 df ship lap a bit, and for sure go through the osb 1/2".

If I used only wood screws to mount the vinyl siding, would it maybe pull off through the slots?

I have D5 vinyl siding, in color kind of like antique ivory i think its called at HD, but its not quite, it doesnt match any of the colors at HD. So I wont be able to find the exact color. And I cant find my profile, it would be special order.
So I may either take my siding from a back wall that is not seen much, D5 and put it on the front. Or
Turn the whole front face rd side wall into D5 dutch lap, white color, and could either leave it white or paint it with the color match paint I got for it.
I have looked at the siding I took off the wall, and measured all the pcs, I am goona see if I have enough, its lots of short pcs like 48 inches and under. I wonder if that will look bad or funny having lots of shorties on it?
I have a ton of white used vinyl siding, d5 dutch lap. Enough to do my whole shop or house probably. Some is cracked, maybe its a cheaper kind. I understand there is different thicknesses of siding.

So start starter strip, have nails slots 1/4 above osb bottom edge or 1/2 or so or whatever I want it to hand down?
Thanks I get what you mean about the J channel and under sill trim at the top under the soffit, good call. I will probably do the same, j trim would look better yea, the under sill kind of goes wavy with the wall and is not rigid enough. Can just use silicon to keep the pc of vinyl siding in place if need be. Or use the punch tool.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:06 am

Regular wood screws with a tapered head will not work for siding . If you use screws you need a truss head screw or shingle nail.

Any of those siding options would work except painting it. Painting vinyl siding is not a great idea. it does shift and move as time and seasons go on and eventually you will see edges not painted at laps and joints.

Hang starter strip at the height you need.

once you get up to the last row you can decide what you need to do with it based on where in the profile you will be cutting the top row of siding at. In 99% or situations you can use the punch lock tool to fasten it.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:19 pm

Hey thanks.
May I ask why the wood screws would not work in vinyl siding? They pull out to easily with the taper?

I got my drip cap on above the window, I put it under all layers of tar paper, but when I nailed the drip cap on, it kind of pushed up wards as it hits the screws in the window fin, and then pushes the drip cap up. So I didnt nail them all the way, tried to leave a bit of space. And hope that when I put the J trim on it will nail into the fin and below the screws on the fin, so as to get the drip cap flush and angled down. If that makes any sense.

May I ask why you put J trim instead of starter strip row in your video on how to siding? I noticed you put it all along the bottom of that house. Wouldnt the j trim just collect and trap water running down the wall? You would want holes drilled in j trim then.

In the install vinyl trim videos.
Is it ok to nail all trim tight, or does it need to be loose too?
I notice on vertical trims, you nail in the middle of the hole, on j trim around a window. I was going to say, wouldnt it be best to nail it at the upper most of the slot, so the vertical j trim can not fall down?
But I guess once you put the bottom trim on, it keeps it from falling?
I guess just corner trim pcs you would want to nail the upper most of the slot so it wont move down?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:22 am

with the taper they actually prevent the siding from moving as easy as it needs during expansion and contraction.

Again you used the wood screws with washers on the window install ...right? The ones I was saying not to use.

I used J in that situation instead of starter because the first row of siding on the addition was cut off on bottom so that it would match up to the siding existing on the house. You can drill drain holes in the J if you like but in reality if your J is hanging level without low spots water will run out the ends or simply over the top in heavy rain.

Vinyl siding trims ( Js , undersill ,drip cap) can be nailed tight or loose if you prefer. Corners need to be nailed loose or they will look wavy when they are in the sun.And on corners you nail in top of top hole and bottom of top hole ,then nail in middle of remaining holes. This keeps the corner from sliding down and also from expanding up and pushing the soffit panel up wards.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:40 pm

Ok thanks.
The taper in the screws would not go in tight. But I think I know what you mean, it would start to work its way into the taper and be to tight to move easy. Not trying to re invent the wheel here, just questioning why, and yea nails looks way easier and quicker.

And on using wood screws around the window fins, is this why you dont use them? Because they stick out to much for the drip cap to be flush? And J trims?
I could still remove all the screws around the window at this point. and put in nails.
Maybe I should?

When I am going to install the J trim around window, I can see it is going to pierce the window fin, I hope this is ok and wont crack it.
Last edited by kurt333 on Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:58 pm

For all products like this ,flater headed fasteners are recommended. You end up with multiple layers of different trim products and thickness becomes an issue.
The fin will not crack unless your temps are closer to freezing and even then its not usually an issue.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:16 am

Ok thanks. I will fix it with nails, while I have the chance. I guess you do end up with even more nails on the fin when done anyways because you are attaching trim too...

Hey I am re framing my door way for 32x80 or 34x80 door for later if need be.
So should I rough in for 32x80 door, be 34x83? Or would 34.5x83 be a problem?
When I attach the door frame to the rough opening, so you always shim all the way around, or can I have the hinge side right close attached onto the stud?
If its shimming evenly around the sides, then I will end up being able to spray foam all around. Just dont want to big of a gap.
With 2 inches wider I will end up with 1/4 inch gap on both sides, isnt that a bit tight? 3/8 or 1/2 maybe better for gap to spray foam?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:37 pm

I might need a new front door, I think I will stick to 32x80.
Mine is kind of micky moused up, cheesy, the thresh hold is separate from the door jamb, someone put it in separate. Im thinking it may cause me more problems, as the gap is pretty big from thresh hold to the jamb, if water gets by there, im in trouble sort of thing... Or if step on threshold and flexes, im in trouble if it breaks away the sealant. I will probably have to fill some pretty big gaps to make it work to seal it...
Maybe easier to just buy a new one? Pricey though for new ones.
So working on rough opening now.
34.25x83 rough?

Do I make the jamb flush with drywall? Or try and make it flush with something to the house side osb or ship lap...?
Just get a 2x4 door? made for 2x4 walls or 2x6? these walls are furred out to 2x6, but dont mind adding a trim to make up the difference if i go with 2x4 door.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:46 am

I don't think you will find a 34" door anymore. Either 32" or 36" around here.
Doors (32"x80) I can get here are best framed with a 34-1/2" x 82-1/2" R.O.
If the wall is true 2x6 thickness then go with that . If you use a 2x4 frame and the door is an inswing your door is restricted from opening much more then 90 degrees by the extra frame and trim inside. 2x4 frame vs. 2x6 frames don't really cost much difference.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:54 pm

Ok thanks, 32 it is. I found a used one, but its a ways away, and has pet cut out in it, scuffed up but two years old. Maybe I should go for it and buy new steel door. Be done with it. Im into it now, got it all apart, boards over my door way..
Is there any benefit to fiberglass doors?

My door in swings, and LH. And my walls are originally 2x4, but I furred out to 2x6. And all it needs is to swing in 90 degrees or slightly more against the wall.
So go with 2x6 framed door?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:09 pm

So if I use a 2x4 framed door, with my fured out wall to 2x6, then it will not open more than 90 degrees? It will hit the trim that I will have to make up to fill in the gaps or missing jamb part around the door?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:29 pm

In my opinion fiberglass doors are not as good as they say, and not worth extra money if you have to pay more for it.
Yes you understand the problem with using 2x4 jambs in a 2x6 wall.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:12 pm

Thanks, steel it is.
Hey just curious, what should the gap be under the exterior door? between thresh hold and bottom of door? 1/2 for the door sweep to work adjust properly?
I know if I buy new it will have all this and wont have to adjust.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:02 pm

So hh has fiberglass door for 350 with no brick mold, alliance brand, and they have steel jelwen for 330 with brick mold, both nice looking doors. Have to stain the fiber glass one with gel stain.

Is the fiberglass door insulated better? Both are 2x6 frame.

The clowns at hd have mainly 2x4 frame doors... which is suprising, in this towns store anyways. And $265 no brick molding and masonite brand. I did a measurement of the 2x4 door, its 5.5 " from back to front aluminum sloped sill, and if I was to run it where you would run it flush to drywall and extending out, it would not clearance go beyond my outer plywood and siding. So no good. And it would be way in board if I ran it flush to my furred out drywall. So I may have to Macgyvor some sort of flashing up under the sill so it drains not into my door jamb. I have many layers of tar paper trough sloped out in there. Maybe a 2x6 framed door would clearance it no prob. Looks like maybe 2x6 framed fiberglass door might be the one to go with. for the little bit more money.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 pm

I doubt there is any difference in R value ,check the specs.
Don't set the frame flush to the inside you will have nothing but troubles in the future with water.
Is HD your only option? I would doubt it. Look around at other stores
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:58 pm

No I have more options, but they are more money.

HH is home hardware, that the the guys your buying from by the looks of it, by the looks of your wrap and some paint. They are good too, but more pricey on other stuff, like lumber, here anyways.
And HD is home depot, looks like they stock mostly 2x4 doors, i called the other towns store.
We have also, windsor, but they are more pricey, as i heard they make there own doors. I may call slegg, but they are out of the way for me.
Im dry fitting looking at my old door now, i may put it back in, im not sure.
Or spend the 400 on the fiberglass unit. And maybe try and find a used storm door, and be done with it, wont get pelted as much from south easterly then...
My used door, has a replaced door sweep and of course all the water runs down the door and into the door sweep and rusts the door. I will have to drill some holes in bottom of sweep if i reinstall. And I did have a drip edge tin riveted over this sweep, but the water still runs up drip edge tin and fills the sweep up with water, just soaks it.
The fiber glass door is a beauty.
What I like about the new doors, is the sweep is kind of hidden under it, especially the HD masonite sweep, it does not stick out at all, its flush, theres no where water could run in the throff of sweep, if it even has one. I cant see whats going on with it yet.
Its definatly a weak point and gets just hammered by the weather, they put the door in a really dumb spot, there used to be a little walls framed around the door step area and roof probably. Storm door might solve it, or could try and build some little wall or walls and roof over. But may look junky, not sure. I may want to run tin flashing under the thresh hold. I already have three layers of tar paper 60 min and little troff dealy, so it cant get in edges, and sloped it a bit.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:37 am

Oh ok m sorry I thought you had HD in both references.
Nothing wrong with fiberglass doors so that met be the way to go.
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