installing a light fixture

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Invest777
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installing a light fixture

Post by Invest777 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:40 pm

Hi Shannon,
I got two questions that i will like to ask

1st: when replacing a ceiling fan with a light fixture, "to my understanding" ceiling fans use 12/3 wire, so is it ok to hook that 12 gauge wire to a 14 gauge wire " im assuming most commonly bought light fixtures is 14 gauge" or is there a chance in overheating that wire
2nd:In older homes where there is just a black and white wire to a light fixture, but a new bought fixture have a ground wire with the hot and neutral, do i just ground that wire to the metal box?

Also im go start posting before and after pics of every job you help me to do, small and big, I think that will make this a better forum. I might try to go back and post pics of the previous pprojects i posted. Thanks for your help.

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Shannon
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Shannon » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:14 pm

There is no code that has ceiling fans run off of 12/2, and if that is what is there you are still fine to hook a light to it. With your ground from the light you can just hook it to the box.
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Shannon
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Shannon » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:35 am

Invest777 wrote:Hi Shannon,
I got two questions that i will like to ask

1st: when replacing a ceiling fan with a light fixture, "to my understanding" ceiling fans use 12/3 wire, so is it ok to hook that 12 gauge wire to a 14 gauge wire " im assuming most commonly bought light fixtures is 14 gauge" or is there a chance in overheating that wire
2nd:In older homes where there is just a black and white wire to a light fixture, but a new bought fixture have a ground wire with the hot and neutral, do i just ground that wire to the metal box?

Also im go start posting before and after pics of every job you help me to do, small and big, I think that will make this a better forum. I might try to go back and post pics of the previous pprojects i posted. Thanks for your help.

When posting those pictures please be sure to reduce their size. A maximum width of about 600 pix. works really well and is better for viewing. Thanks.
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Aaron
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Aaron » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:00 pm

CSA Rule 30-104 in Canada limits to 15A the overcurrent protection for lights in homes, and I personally think that is a reasonable and safe standard to follow, even though the NEC in the US has no such overcurrent limit for residential lighting.

Because 14 gauge cable is the standard for 15A circuits, this is the size of conductors you want to use for ceiling boxes. Ceiling fans are very commonly retrofitted on existing ceiling boxes that were once used for lighting.

Whether to go with 14-2 or 14-3 (with ground; 3 or 4 conductors total) is up to you. If the box is already wired, you just go with whatever is there. If it's new construction, I still advocate using 14-3 between the switch and ceiling box so one hot conductor switches the light and the other the fan. This is becoming irrelevant, though, because so many modern fans have remote controls. But low-cost or older fans don't.

Also, any light fixture or ceiling fan I've installed are internally wired with 16 gauge stranded conductors, so that right away tells you that the fan or light is not even rated to draw 15A of current. So 14 gauge house wiring is more than sufficient.

Invest777
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Invest777 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:40 pm

Ok with the light installation i ran in to this. It was a red wire,and white wire coming from the box (thats it)but the red wire jump off the black wire, and it use to be a fan there ,but wanted a light there instead, so the light fixture has black,white, ground, and i was think just hook black to red,white to white and just ground to the metal, should i do it this way

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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Shannon » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:01 pm

So there was no black wire at all in that box?? Strange. Thats what I would do to start with, red to bleach and white to white.
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Invest777
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Invest777 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:08 pm

It was black wires actually in the box, but they was all connected then to the red wire, and that left the red wire and white wire hanging freely after removing the fan, the owner had renovation rip offs to do her house after a fire and thats what they did

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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Shannon » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:11 pm

Oh I see, thats perfectly fine. So red to black and white to white for sure then.
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Invest777
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Invest777 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:13 pm

Thanks alot

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Aaron
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Aaron » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:15 pm

Sounds like you might have had 14-3 run to the ceiling box, and for whatever reason, the red was used instead of the black conductor. Or perhaps it's conduit to the box, and they ran red conductor for the power instead of black (I see this a lot). Nothing wrong with that, at least it's a colored conductor used for hot (a color other than green or white).

Invest777
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Invest777 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:23 pm

They actually drywall over the perimeter of the electrical box,so i couldnt even find the holes on the box so i can connect the bracket so i can hang the light, so when they put the ceiling fan in,they mounted it directly to the drywalled ceiling and over time ,the owner said the fan begin to wobble as it would spin then eventually fell from the ceiling

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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Aaron » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:48 pm

Nice.

Acutally for a ceiling fan, you really need a box that is rated for the heaviness of the fan. The heavier duty box will typically be made of heavier gauge steel, will have a stronger attachment method to the joist (thicker plate steel bracket attached with large screws), and the box itself will be fitted with wider 10-24 mounting screws instead of the standard 8-32 screws on ceiling boxes.

Although not required, custom builders (or homeowners) with foresight will order the electrician to use those boxes for all suitable rooms that could someday have ceiling fans, so those rooms are "fan ready" in the future.

Without this type of box, you may need to cut into the ceiling drywall and replace the box with one suitable for a fan, or the fan may include instructions to screw its mounting bracket directly to a joist in the ceiling. In this case you need some heavy-duty lag screws. Then the weight of the fan is on that bracket, and not the electrical ceiling box.

Invest777
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Invest777 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:36 pm

so I know its been a while since I talk about this light, but still didn't install it, because they was a new situation.so here it is. 1.) there use to be a ceiling fan as the fixture.2.)when I went to install the new light I found out the light wasn't connected to a switch.the installer I guess use the pull switch connected to the previous installed fan as the switch, as far as the homeowner says the fan worked properly.3) so a another fan will be replacing it,(to function the same as the previous fan) the fan has a white,blue,green,black, is the blue wire the same as a red wire.4) so in the previous post I said it was a white wire,and a red wire(and the red wire was connected to the black wires)that was in the electrical box5.) I did further inspection and the red wire was basically a jumper(a cut 5 inch wire) that connected to the black wire then connected to the fan.5) so the situation I got right now is one white(that's look like a jumper as well) and 3 combine black wires coming down from the electrical box.6.)how would I wire the 3 wire fan(with blue,black.white wires) to a black and white wire.any help is appreciated.thanks

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Shannon
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Shannon » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:52 pm

That fan must have chains that allow you to control the fan and light separately, and is set up so you could control the fan and light with separate switches on the wall. The blue should supply power to either the light or fan and the black will do the other. I would say the white to the whites and the black and blue to the blacks.
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Invest777
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Invest777 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:24 pm

Thanks alot Shannon, so u wouldn't even install the fan if it wasnt connected to a wall switch, even if it had two chains to kill the power to the light and fan

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Shannon
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Shannon » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:55 pm

No thats not what I'm saying. I see no problem with installing it without a switch on the wall.
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Invest777
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Invest777 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:10 pm

Ok the new fan only has one chain,and im thinking its for the actually fan and not the light, so that probably a no installation

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Shannon
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Shannon » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:31 pm

Ya I'm thinking you need switches.
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mrpark
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by mrpark » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:45 am

I am wondering the same thing. In our basement I have all 20 amp breakers, and 12 gauge wiring, it goes through a junction box where the wires are connected. I wanted to replace the single light there with a pull switch, but the wires on that are very thin, looking like 14/2 or less. Perhaps you already answered this, but is it safe to put a light like that on a 12 gauge circuit? The previous homeowner also had it on the junction box. The problem is the light went bad and I removed it.

In looking at recessed lighting, I know they sell recessed ceiling light cans that are rated for 12 gauge but my basement doesn't seem to have enough room for that. I know there are skinny LED, but again not sure about them.

BTW, the previous homeowner ran some 14 gauge off the 12 gauge which is a no-no one a 20 amp breaker, so I removed it. Ill be doing a lot of electrical work on my house soon, because I see the previous homeowner putting 14 gauge on the 20 gauge breakers!

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Aaron
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Re: installing a light fixture

Post by Aaron » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:54 pm

It's ok to mix gauges, but the circuit breaker has to have overcurrent protection for the smallest gauge wire of the circuit, so 15 amps for 14 gauge.

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