Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

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Shannon
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Shannon » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:56 pm

Just my OCD I guess! 😂😂
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by JJT » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:18 am

Got a little of that myself....

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by JJT » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:01 pm

...for example, I make sure that all my switch and receptacle(decoras) wall plate top and bottom flat head screw slots are aligned vertically with each other for each plate. Top that!

Plate Screws.JPG
Plate Screws.JPG (28.55 KiB) Viewed 209 times
(Installation of the receptacle is actually visually straight,..it's my camera abilities that are crooked.) :oops:

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Aaron » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:45 pm

You need to separate those cables and secure them with cable-width staples. Cables should not be bundled together like that under one strap or through one hole.

You can stack two cables per staple, and that's it.

Up in Canada there are staples specifically for just one cable, and other staples for a stack of two--so be sure to get what you need.

The US has the same restriction of one or a stack of two, but there aren't two kinds of staples--you just have to be extra careful not to pound the staple in too much that it will crush the cable. Cables should be allowed a little bit of wiggle or sliding under the staple.

There are "cable stacker" accessories that have fanning strips that enable you to run up to four cables side-by-side. Those are UL-approved for that purpose. I'm not sure if these exist up in Canada, but if so, they'd be CSA approved. They're sort of expensive and unnecessary in my opinion, unless you're running a LOT of cables in a single chase. This could be for a 3- or 4-gang switch box, for example. But still you could just as easily run two two-stack cables side-by-side on the same stud.

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by JJT » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:49 pm

Aaron wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:45 pm
You need to separate those cables and secure them with cable-width staples. Cables should not be bundled together like that under one strap or through one hole.

You can stack two cables per staple, and that's it.

Up in Canada there are staples specifically for just one cable, and other staples for a stack of two--so be sure to get what you need.

The US has the same restriction of one or a stack of two, but there aren't two kinds of staples--you just have to be extra careful not to pound the staple in too much that it will crush the cable. Cables should be allowed a little bit of wiggle or sliding under the staple.

There are "cable stacker" accessories that have fanning strips that enable you to run up to four cables side-by-side. Those are UL-approved for that purpose. I'm not sure if these exist up in Canada, but if so, they'd be CSA approved. They're sort of expensive and unnecessary in my opinion, unless you're running a LOT of cables in a single chase. This could be for a 3- or 4-gang switch box, for example. But still you could just as easily run two two-stack cables side-by-side on the same stud.
Thanks kindly. I will take care of it. I wonder why he did that?

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Aaron » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:42 pm

JJT wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:49 pm
Thanks kindly. I will take care of it. I wonder why he did that?
Honestly, he probably didn't know. Doesn't mean he's a bad electrician, but it's really hard to know all the do's and don'ts in the trade, particularly the fussy or obscure details.

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Shannon » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:54 pm

JJT wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:01 pm
...for example, I make sure that all my switch and receptacle(decoras) wall plate top and bottom flat head screw slots are aligned vertically with each other for each plate. Top that
Actually that is exactly how I do mine as well. My son is an electrician and he hates them that way, he places his horizontally. I don’t care I told him as long as you pick a direction and olace them all that way all the time!😎
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Shannon » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:58 pm

There was a electrical contractor up here (retired now) the inspectors were allowing him to bundle his wires together coming to the panel. It was absurd if you ask me. He would have (no word of a lie ) all the 14 and 12 gauge wires bundles together coming to each side of the panel.
I know every time I’m in a house he did because of that.
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by emtnut » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:09 pm

You can bundle wires together (as many as you need) for up to 2 feet. It's pretty common in most flush mount panels to have a fair amount of wires together.

The derating only comes in after that 2 feet, and even then you are derating from the 90˚ ampacity.

I would have done the panel a bit neater (I have known OCD issues thou !), but I don't see any safety problem with it.
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Aaron » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:38 pm

Shannon wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:54 pm
Actually that is exactly how I do mine as well. My son is an electrician and he hates them that way, he places his horizontally. I don’t care I told him as long as you pick a direction and olace them all that way all the time!😎
As long as they're not diagonal, then they still just look haphazard even if they're all the same.

Oh and you guys are in Canada, why aren't those screws Robertson. lol

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Shannon » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:22 pm

Aaron wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:38 pm

Oh and you guys are in Canada, why aren't those screws Robertson. lol
That is a very good question?
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by JJT » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:25 am

Shannon wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:22 pm
Aaron wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:38 pm

Oh and you guys are in Canada, why aren't those screws Robertson. lol
That is a very good question?
That is actually a peeve of mine. The screws going into the box are Robbies but the plate screws are flatties, hence two screwdrivers needed for what should be a simple one screwdriver job.. :cry:

While we're kind of there, I've noticed that new switched have a ground screw now. Is grounding switches code for Canada now?

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Shannon » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:22 pm

Switches in Canada do not need to be directly grounded with the bare copper wire . I think it’s just easier for companies to make switches that can be sold in US and Canada instead of two different ones ?
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by JJT » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:23 pm

Thanks! I'm in the process of upgrading to more decorative switches now so won't bother with the green screw. Much appreciated!

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Aaron » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:15 pm

After you wrap the ground around the box's ground screw, just tuck the extra length wire in the back of the box. Don't trim it!

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by emtnut » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:45 pm

Yep, no need to attach ground to switches up here.

Even if you're using plastic boxes, our boxes have a built in ground clamp.
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by JJT » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:48 am

But what happens if you pull out a connected switch from the box and forgot to power down? Then is it a live non-grounded switch?

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by emtnut » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:50 am

No, the switch is not live (the metal parts of it). But you have live 120V on the screw terminals.

..... Now HOW could you forget to turn the power off !!! :shock: :lol: :mrgreen:
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by JJT » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:17 am

Brain intestinal gas happens..lol

But couldn't you say the same about receptacles, which have to be wire grounded in Canada?...or do they :?:

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by emtnut » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:35 am

JJT wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:17 am
Brain intestinal gas happens..lol

But couldn't you say the same about receptacles, which have to be wire grounded in Canada?...or do they :?:
I call them Brain Farts !

Receptacles require the ground wire on the switch and box up here in Canada. Older 2 prong recepts obviously didn't have a ground. But even if the ground wasn't there, the receptacle isn't 'live' but you have no ground protection in the case of a fault.

Just a guess, but since the recept has a ground pin, they want the ground wire on the device itself.
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by emtnut » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:00 pm

emtnut wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:35 am

Receptacles require the ground wire on the switch and box up here
That should read require the ground wire on the 'receptacle' and box up here :mrgreen:
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Aaron » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:39 pm

The ground screw on switches has only existed in the US since about the late 1980s or early 1990s or so. Switches never used to have ground screws. It's not really clear to me why the decision was ever made to have them.

I also remember, for a period in the 1980s, when residential-grade switches and receptacles were manufactured with plastic yokes--the same plastic used for the receptacle face. It was all one mold. They weren't as sturdy as the metal yokes, so they only lasted a few years.

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by JJT » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:42 am

emtnut wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:09 pm
You can bundle wires together (as many as you need) for up to 2 feet. It's pretty common in most flush mount panels to have a fair amount of wires together.

The derating only comes in after that 2 feet, and even then you are derating from the 90˚ ampacity.

I would have done the panel a bit neater (I have known OCD issues thou !), but I don't see any safety problem with it.
I was thinking of prettying her up for you guys, but then thought ultimately it's her personality that counts,...right guys :?: ;)

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Shannon » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:07 pm

👍🏻
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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by Aaron » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:42 pm

JJT wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:42 am
I was thinking of prettying her up for you guys, but then thought ultimately it's her personality that counts,...right guys :?: ;)
Yeah mess it up a little. lol

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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Post by emtnut » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:28 am

JJT wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:42 am

I was thinking of prettying her up for you guys, but then thought ultimately it's her personality that counts,...right guys :?: ;)
Well, yeah ..... And I'd say that panel has plenty of personality !!! :lol: ;)

Just kidding, it actually looks much better than Spruceys wiring, thats for sure !!!
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