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Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:56 pm
by Shannon
Just my OCD I guess! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:18 am
by JJT
Got a little of that myself....

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:01 pm
by JJT
...for example, I make sure that all my switch and receptacle(decoras) wall plate top and bottom flat head screw slots are aligned vertically with each other for each plate. Top that!

Plate Screws.JPG
Plate Screws.JPG (28.55 KiB) Viewed 1455 times
(Installation of the receptacle is actually visually straight,..it's my camera abilities that are crooked.) :oops:

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:45 pm
by Aaron
You need to separate those cables and secure them with cable-width staples. Cables should not be bundled together like that under one strap or through one hole.

You can stack two cables per staple, and that's it.

Up in Canada there are staples specifically for just one cable, and other staples for a stack of two--so be sure to get what you need.

The US has the same restriction of one or a stack of two, but there aren't two kinds of staples--you just have to be extra careful not to pound the staple in too much that it will crush the cable. Cables should be allowed a little bit of wiggle or sliding under the staple.

There are "cable stacker" accessories that have fanning strips that enable you to run up to four cables side-by-side. Those are UL-approved for that purpose. I'm not sure if these exist up in Canada, but if so, they'd be CSA approved. They're sort of expensive and unnecessary in my opinion, unless you're running a LOT of cables in a single chase. This could be for a 3- or 4-gang switch box, for example. But still you could just as easily run two two-stack cables side-by-side on the same stud.

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:49 pm
by JJT
Aaron wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:45 pm
You need to separate those cables and secure them with cable-width staples. Cables should not be bundled together like that under one strap or through one hole.

You can stack two cables per staple, and that's it.

Up in Canada there are staples specifically for just one cable, and other staples for a stack of two--so be sure to get what you need.

The US has the same restriction of one or a stack of two, but there aren't two kinds of staples--you just have to be extra careful not to pound the staple in too much that it will crush the cable. Cables should be allowed a little bit of wiggle or sliding under the staple.

There are "cable stacker" accessories that have fanning strips that enable you to run up to four cables side-by-side. Those are UL-approved for that purpose. I'm not sure if these exist up in Canada, but if so, they'd be CSA approved. They're sort of expensive and unnecessary in my opinion, unless you're running a LOT of cables in a single chase. This could be for a 3- or 4-gang switch box, for example. But still you could just as easily run two two-stack cables side-by-side on the same stud.
Thanks kindly. I will take care of it. I wonder why he did that?

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:42 pm
by Aaron
JJT wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:49 pm
Thanks kindly. I will take care of it. I wonder why he did that?
Honestly, he probably didn't know. Doesn't mean he's a bad electrician, but it's really hard to know all the do's and don'ts in the trade, particularly the fussy or obscure details.

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:54 pm
by Shannon
JJT wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:01 pm
...for example, I make sure that all my switch and receptacle(decoras) wall plate top and bottom flat head screw slots are aligned vertically with each other for each plate. Top that
Actually that is exactly how I do mine as well. My son is an electrician and he hates them that way, he places his horizontally. I don’t care I told him as long as you pick a direction and olace them all that way all the time!😎

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:58 pm
by Shannon
There was a electrical contractor up here (retired now) the inspectors were allowing him to bundle his wires together coming to the panel. It was absurd if you ask me. He would have (no word of a lie ) all the 14 and 12 gauge wires bundles together coming to each side of the panel.
I know every time I’m in a house he did because of that.

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:09 pm
by emtnut
You can bundle wires together (as many as you need) for up to 2 feet. It's pretty common in most flush mount panels to have a fair amount of wires together.

The derating only comes in after that 2 feet, and even then you are derating from the 90˚ ampacity.

I would have done the panel a bit neater (I have known OCD issues thou !), but I don't see any safety problem with it.

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:38 pm
by Aaron
Shannon wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:54 pm
Actually that is exactly how I do mine as well. My son is an electrician and he hates them that way, he places his horizontally. I don’t care I told him as long as you pick a direction and olace them all that way all the time!😎
As long as they're not diagonal, then they still just look haphazard even if they're all the same.

Oh and you guys are in Canada, why aren't those screws Robertson. lol

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:22 pm
by Shannon
Aaron wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:38 pm

Oh and you guys are in Canada, why aren't those screws Robertson. lol
That is a very good question?

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:25 am
by JJT
Shannon wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:22 pm
Aaron wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:38 pm

Oh and you guys are in Canada, why aren't those screws Robertson. lol
That is a very good question?
That is actually a peeve of mine. The screws going into the box are Robbies but the plate screws are flatties, hence two screwdrivers needed for what should be a simple one screwdriver job.. :cry:

While we're kind of there, I've noticed that new switched have a ground screw now. Is grounding switches code for Canada now?

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:22 pm
by Shannon
Switches in Canada do not need to be directly grounded with the bare copper wire . I think it’s just easier for companies to make switches that can be sold in US and Canada instead of two different ones ?

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:23 pm
by JJT
Thanks! I'm in the process of upgrading to more decorative switches now so won't bother with the green screw. Much appreciated!

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:15 pm
by Aaron
After you wrap the ground around the box's ground screw, just tuck the extra length wire in the back of the box. Don't trim it!

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:45 pm
by emtnut
Yep, no need to attach ground to switches up here.

Even if you're using plastic boxes, our boxes have a built in ground clamp.

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:48 am
by JJT
But what happens if you pull out a connected switch from the box and forgot to power down? Then is it a live non-grounded switch?

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:50 am
by emtnut
No, the switch is not live (the metal parts of it). But you have live 120V on the screw terminals.

..... Now HOW could you forget to turn the power off !!! :shock: :lol: :mrgreen:

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:17 am
by JJT
Brain intestinal gas happens..lol

But couldn't you say the same about receptacles, which have to be wire grounded in Canada?...or do they :?:

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:35 am
by emtnut
JJT wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:17 am
Brain intestinal gas happens..lol

But couldn't you say the same about receptacles, which have to be wire grounded in Canada?...or do they :?:
I call them Brain Farts !

Receptacles require the ground wire on the switch and box up here in Canada. Older 2 prong recepts obviously didn't have a ground. But even if the ground wasn't there, the receptacle isn't 'live' but you have no ground protection in the case of a fault.

Just a guess, but since the recept has a ground pin, they want the ground wire on the device itself.

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:00 pm
by emtnut
emtnut wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:35 am

Receptacles require the ground wire on the switch and box up here
That should read require the ground wire on the 'receptacle' and box up here :mrgreen:

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:39 pm
by Aaron
The ground screw on switches has only existed in the US since about the late 1980s or early 1990s or so. Switches never used to have ground screws. It's not really clear to me why the decision was ever made to have them.

I also remember, for a period in the 1980s, when residential-grade switches and receptacles were manufactured with plastic yokes--the same plastic used for the receptacle face. It was all one mold. They weren't as sturdy as the metal yokes, so they only lasted a few years.

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:42 am
by JJT
emtnut wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:09 pm
You can bundle wires together (as many as you need) for up to 2 feet. It's pretty common in most flush mount panels to have a fair amount of wires together.

The derating only comes in after that 2 feet, and even then you are derating from the 90˚ ampacity.

I would have done the panel a bit neater (I have known OCD issues thou !), but I don't see any safety problem with it.
I was thinking of prettying her up for you guys, but then thought ultimately it's her personality that counts,...right guys :?: ;)

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:07 pm
by Shannon
πŸ‘πŸ»

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:42 pm
by Aaron
JJT wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:42 am
I was thinking of prettying her up for you guys, but then thought ultimately it's her personality that counts,...right guys :?: ;)
Yeah mess it up a little. lol

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:28 am
by emtnut
JJT wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:42 am

I was thinking of prettying her up for you guys, but then thought ultimately it's her personality that counts,...right guys :?: ;)
Well, yeah ..... And I'd say that panel has plenty of personality !!! :lol: ;)

Just kidding, it actually looks much better than Spruceys wiring, thats for sure !!!

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:41 am
by emtnut
Hey Shannon ... Looky what I found !!! :shock:

First link, the Sask interpretations. Seems to be a complete 2018 code book !!
I just glanced through it, but seems to be fairly complete. The only thing It doesn't seem to have the tables at the end, but some table data is in the text.

https://www.saskpower.com/accounts-and- ... pretations

Aaron, would be handy for you as well.

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:46 pm
by Aaron
Nice find. I haven't found published 2018 CEC code using my, ahem, sources, yet. May not need to bother now. lol

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:12 pm
by emtnut
Aaron wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:46 pm
Nice find. I haven't found published 2018 CEC code using my, ahem, sources, yet. May not need to bother now. lol
If you do find one ... Ahem ... let someone know ;) :mrgreen:

Re: Electric Code Checklists (US/Canada)

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:30 pm
by Shannon
Great find Nutzy!