Page 1 of 1

Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:41 pm
by TomK
Basement Recepticles: 12/2 Line, 20A Outlets and 20A AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection in Ontario?

This is what was floated in a conversation I had:

Inspectors may have an issue with the above. Unless a valid reason is given why someone may want 20 Amps. If no valid reason is given, the inspector may request that both the receptacles and the breaker be changed to 15A instead and may suggest to use multiple lines on separate breakers instead to satisfy further power needs in a residential.

Some of the above doesn't make sense to me. Anyone encountered said scenario?

Cheers,

Re: Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:59 am
by Shannon
Wayne would be the best to answer this since he is in the trade and also from the area. Lets see what he says?
IMO there is no need for 20amp unless you have a very specific high load going on this circuit. But also if the circuit is using all the right products (12/2 wire,20amp plugs,20amp breaker, 20amp AFCI ) i'm not sure it should matter?

Re: Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:24 am
by emtnut
TomK wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:41 pm
Basement Recepticles: 12/2 Line, 20A Outlets and 20A AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection in Ontario?

This is what was floated in a conversation I had:

Inspectors may have an issue with the above. Unless a valid reason is given why someone may want 20 Amps. If no valid reason is given, the inspector may request that both the receptacles and the breaker be changed to 15A instead and may suggest to use multiple lines on separate breakers instead to satisfy further power needs in a residential.

Some of the above doesn't make sense to me. Anyone encountered said scenario?

Cheers,
I've never come across that scenario, but I don't run 20A circuits for receptacles ! Apart from the kitchen counter, possibly the laundry circuit, why would you do this ??
The cable is more expensive, and the 20A t-slots are more expensive.
(For our US friends, you guys can have more than 12 devices, so 20A circuits are common in the US)

Technically by code, you can do it, but the inspector could question your intent.

So let me ask you ... why are you running a 20A circuit ?? :mrgreen:

Re: Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:32 am
by Jmaclicious
emtnut wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:24 am
TomK wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:41 pm
Basement Recepticles: 12/2 Line, 20A Outlets and 20A AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection in Ontario?

This is what was floated in a conversation I had:

Inspectors may have an issue with the above. Unless a valid reason is given why someone may want 20 Amps. If no valid reason is given, the inspector may request that both the receptacles and the breaker be changed to 15A instead and may suggest to use multiple lines on separate breakers instead to satisfy further power needs in a residential.

Some of the above doesn't make sense to me. Anyone encountered said scenario?

Cheers,
I've never come across that scenario, but I don't run 20A circuits for receptacles ! Apart from the kitchen counter, possibly the laundry circuit, why would you do this ??
The cable is more expensive, and the 20A t-slots are more expensive.
(For our US friends, you guys can have more than 12 devices, so 20A circuits are common in the US)

Technically by code, you can do it, but the inspector could question your intent.

So let me ask you ... why are you running a 20A circuit ?? :mrgreen:
I also ran 12-2 wire in my basement, my thought was to future proof, easier to change out the breaker + receptacles to handle heavier loads such as heavy computer set up, treadmill, mini bar fridge, air tools, girls like to blow dry their hair while watching TV etc. easier than running new wire. I dont think ill regret this, will i?

Re: Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:49 am
by emtnut
Jmaclicious wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:32 am

I also ran 12-2 wire in my basement, my thought was to future proof, easier to change out the breaker + receptacles to handle heavier loads such as heavy computer set up, treadmill, mini bar fridge, air tools, girls like to blow dry their hair while watching TV etc. easier than running new wire. I dont think ill regret this, will i?
Not at all, and that would be a good enough reason for the inspector.

What he would be looking for is a single high amp draw equipment, and question why you don't run a dedicated line to it.

Treadmills move from one corner to another, and who knows where the hair dryer plugs in, so you can't really run a dedicated line.

Re: Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:06 pm
by Aaron
If I were the inspector, I'm not sure why I'd give two flips about 20A circuits anywhere in the house so long as the 12 receptacle max rule is observed and the proper materials are used. That the homeowner WANTS to use a 20A circuit is as good enough of a reason as any other for me. I might point out that it's overkill, but that's their choice.

That said, 15A is absolutely plenty for bedrooms and living rooms. 20A is required for kitchens (which in the USA includes an adjoining dining room). I recommend a 20A circuit per bathroom, and basements too if the area is for, say, a workshop or something. If it's a guest bedroom or home office area, then I'd wire 15A. Outside can go either way, but 15A is perfectly fine there too. For garages, I would run a 6/3 to a 50A sub-panel, then split off receptacle circuits as needed. Electric vehicles are in our imminent future (I hope) and we need 240V service in our garages.

20A receptacles are used in commercial buildings a lot because there's the notion that a contractor or custodial staff could plug in a piece of machinery that could draw 20A. Say, a floor polisher or carpet cleaner.

Re: Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:48 pm
by TomK
Thanks for the replies guy's. The equipment I'll have in there includes.

1) Treadmill
2) Entertainment center (green)
3) Two kids gaming desktops. PSU's in these are roughly 800W+ ( 2x for each kid = 1600W)
4) Office equipment, mostly low power laptops etc.
5) Kids friends bringing their own gaming desktops.
6) Home storage server etc.

Having hard time envisioning how two 15A wires can be installed to meet that demand while preserving some esthetics and maintaining a distance of 8-10 feet per receptacle.

Appears EI's prefer staying away from the upper limits of receptacles per line and prefer that foot distance and no more then 9 receptacles per line.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sliJF ... MYN_mLYXy6

Cheers,
TK

Re: Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:57 pm
by Aaron
Yeah just run multiple 15A circuits in that case....

Re: Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:58 am
by emtnut
TomK wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:48 pm
Thanks for the replies guy's. The equipment I'll have in there includes.

1) Treadmill
2) Entertainment center (green)
3) Two kids gaming desktops. PSU's in these are roughly 800W+ ( 2x for each kid = 1600W)
4) Office equipment, mostly low power laptops etc.
5) Kids friends bringing their own gaming desktops.
6) Home storage server etc.

Having hard time envisioning how two 15A wires can be installed to meet that demand while preserving some esthetics and maintaining a distance of 8-10 feet per receptacle.

Appears EI's prefer staying away from the upper limits of receptacles per line and prefer that foot distance and no more then 9 receptacles per line.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sliJF ... MYN_mLYXy6

Cheers,
TK
A 20A for the entertainment center would be a good idea then. But don't use it for the general use recepts required, it would be a dedicated circuit.
You could run a 15A circuit for the general use recepts (every 12'), depending on the treadmil, you may want to consider running 2 - 15A circuits.

Re: Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:38 pm
by TomK
Guess what I'm really asking is if I should run two separate 15A cables along the same two sections of wall to alternating outlets 6 feet apart to achieve the above requirement?

Or perhaps a 14-3 cable and alternate black and red between even and odd receptacle numbers? I think that won't work but just throwing it out here.

Having some trouble visualizing the best option.

Cheers,
TK

Re: Basement Recepticles: 20 Amp Line, Outlets and 20 AFCI Breaker. Has anyone done this and passed inspection?

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:31 am
by Aaron
It's really up to you. You could split them, but you know what's actually easier? Just install a double-gang box and put in two receptacles side-by-side, each one on a separate circuit.

Then you have the convenience of four plugs-ins instead of two, each on a separate circuit. I'd do this if I spaced them 10-12 feet apart, but of course you can always use shorter spacing.

Also, I really don't recommend multi-wire branch circuits. Just run standard 14/2 for each back to the panel.