Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

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Love2Learn
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Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Love2Learn » Tue May 28, 2019 9:37 am

Hello,

My pump house has a separate circuit fed through cinder block wall via armoured cable to the pump.

I have removed the pump house wiring for an outlet and light fed from an outlet on the interior side of the cinder block wall.
What type of wiring and conduit should be used to replace it?

Thanks in advance for responses.

Regards...Carol

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Aaron
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Aaron » Tue May 28, 2019 1:30 pm

Hi Carol, you will need to use EMT conduit for permanent surface-mounted electrical. This is very common on cinder-block walls.

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emtnut
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by emtnut » Tue May 28, 2019 1:35 pm

I'm not really clear on what was removed, and if you've already added the light and outlet ? If so, are you looking to re-run to the pump ?

In general, exposed wiring has to be protected, so either conduit or armoured cable. If using AC, you need to attach it to strips of wood so it's not touching the cinder block. Also need a sleeve (pvc) if going through the wall.
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Love2Learn
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Love2Learn » Tue May 28, 2019 2:56 pm

Thanks for responding.

Pump house was built on exterior cinder block wall.The pump has a dedicated circuit.

The pump house has a light and outlet which was being fed from an outlet (which I removed as it was old wiring passed through a hole) from the basement (interior side of cinder block wall). See blue patch in picture.
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Love2Learn
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Love2Learn » Tue May 28, 2019 7:00 pm

Yes, the wiring was done vertically which is another reason I have removed it. The basement is now framed so the new outlets will be attached to studs.

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emtnut
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by emtnut » Wed May 29, 2019 6:37 am

Love2Learn wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:00 pm
Yes, the wiring was done vertically which is another reason I have removed it. The basement is now framed so the new outlets will be attached to studs.
Since the basement is now framed, you can just use regular NMD cable for all the wiring down there.

For the feed to the Pump through the wall, you will need to put in a small piece of PVC conduit to get through the wall, connected to a PVC box (Bell box) on the exterior.
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Love2Learn » Wed May 29, 2019 3:34 pm

Thanks very much!

Are you able to advise if these 2 inspections can occur at the same time? If not, please explain why?

• Rough-in - inspection of all electrical wiring prior
to the installation of the drywall.
• Final - last inspection to ensure there is no open
wiring.

Also, I was thinking of wiring the led slim 4" lights as below. Is this code compliant?
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Aaron
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Aaron » Wed May 29, 2019 5:20 pm

Yes definitely, that wire diagram of the lights is fine. I think in Canada you don't even need AFCI for lights still, as long as it's lights and only lights on the circuit.

I'd wire in a hardwired smoke detector on that circuit as well. Though you'd need to tap into that circuit at the switch location so you have constant, rather than switched, power.

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emtnut
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by emtnut » Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 am

Love2Learn wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 3:34 pm
Are you able to advise if these 2 inspections can occur at the same time? If not, please explain why?

• Rough-in - inspection of all electrical wiring prior
to the installation of the drywall.
• Final - last inspection to ensure there is no open
wiring.

Also, I was thinking of wiring the led slim 4" lights as below. Is this code compliant?
No way around the 2 inspections. Things can change from rough-in to final, and it's their way of ensuring the final finish is done properly.

As Aaron said, if there is even ONE outlet on that circuit then you would need an AFCI (and you would also have to many outlets). If it is strictly LED lighting, then you could have more than the 12 outlets and no AFCI required.
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Love2Learn » Thu May 30, 2019 11:59 am

emtnut wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 am
Love2Learn wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 3:34 pm
Are you able to advise if these 2 inspections can occur at the same time? If not, please explain why?

• Rough-in - inspection of all electrical wiring prior
to the installation of the drywall.
• Final - last inspection to ensure there is no open
wiring.

Also, I was thinking of wiring the led slim 4" lights as below. Is this code compliant?
No way around the 2 inspections. Things can change from rough-in to final, and it's their way of ensuring the final finish is done properly.

As Aaron said, if there is even ONE outlet on that circuit then you would need an AFCI (and you would also have to many outlets). If it is strictly LED lighting, then you could have more than the 12 outlets and no AFCI required.

Thanks so much Aaron / Emtnut. :)

There will be 10 outlets on a secound circuit.

Are you able to confirm that grommets are not required when using these boxes?
https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ibervi ... 1000651417

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Aaron
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Aaron » Thu May 30, 2019 2:29 pm

Love2Learn wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:59 am
Are you able to confirm that grommets are not required when using these boxes?
https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ibervi ... 1000651417
Correct. Those boxes have internal clamps for NM cable. You pry off a metal slug which creates a knockout hole, slip the cable through, and tighten it down inside the box.

If I'm not using the other clamp in the box, I usually remove it for more internal wiring space in the box.

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emtnut
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by emtnut » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:20 pm

Love2Learn wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:59 am
Are you able to confirm that grommets are not required when using these boxes?
Apart from metal 2X4 construction (in commercial), a grommet is never acceptable.
If you don't have the clamps like in the box you posted, it would be a 3/4" opening .. then you would use a box clamp ;)
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Aaron » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:56 pm

Do you guys in Canada have these? They snap into round knockouts of boxes and panels, I call them grommets but I'm not sure what they're called. Once installed on the box, you stab them with the NM cable and they are gripped into place and the cable can't be pulled back out. They're kind of convenient, no need to screw a clamp. But if you need to remove a cable you have to get inside and break them apart with needle-nose pliers. They come in both 1/2" and 3/4" sizes.

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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Love2Learn » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:13 am

emtnut wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:20 pm
Love2Learn wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:59 am
Are you able to confirm that grommets are not required when using these boxes?
Apart from metal 2X4 construction (in commercial), a grommet is never acceptable.
If you don't have the clamps like in the box you posted, it would be a 3/4" opening .. then you would use a box clamp ;)
Makes sense, thanks! I don't know what I don't know. :D

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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Love2Learn » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:18 am

You guys are so helpful and I am very grateful!!!

In Ontario is it okay that the feed to the panel is from the bottom or does it always need to come from the ceiling?
I mounted the boxes at 13" as per Shannon's video is this okay for Ontario?

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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Love2Learn » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:19 am

Aaron wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:56 pm
Do you guys in Canada have these? They snap into round knockouts of boxes and panels, I call them grommets but I'm not sure what they're called. Once installed on the box, you stab them with the NM cable and they are gripped into place and the cable can't be pulled back out. They're kind of convenient, no need to screw a clamp. But if you need to remove a cable you have to get inside and break them apart with needle-nose pliers. They come in both 1/2" and 3/4" sizes.


NM95.jpg
I haven't seen these but I have only shopped at big box Retailers.

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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by emtnut » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:28 am

I haven't seen those Arlington ones around here, but you see alot of the Iberville ones.

Not sure what they call them ?? Plastic box connector ?? :lol:
I've used them on the driver boxes for LED lights. Apart from that, I like the metal box connectors. I haven't used a plastic box thou either.
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Love2Learn » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:22 pm

Love2Learn wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:18 am
You guys are so helpful and I am very grateful!!!

In Ontario is it okay that the feed to the panel is from the bottom or does it always need to come from the ceiling?
I mounted the boxes at 13" as per Shannon's video is this okay for Ontario?
A few more questions:
The pump itself is already connected via a separate circuit through amoured cable in the enclosed pump house which abuts the basement.

An interior outlet was feeding the pump house light and then the outlet via a cloth covered cable passing through a hole in the cinder block wall with the hole stuffed with a putty and balled up tape.

To correct this:
1) remove the old wiring that was passing through the cinder block wall and from light to outlet
2) pass armoured cable through a piece of flexible pvc to a pvc box
3) seal in and around pvc with putty
4) rewire so the outlet is fed first and then the light

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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Aaron » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:26 pm

Love2Learn wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:18 am
You guys are so helpful and I am very grateful!!!

In Ontario is it okay that the feed to the panel is from the bottom or does it always need to come from the ceiling?
No, you can feed a panel from any/all of the four sides. It's usually just good practice to have it all come into the top because it keeps the conductors more tidy inside, and appears more organized. But the electricity doesn't care. :lol:
Love2Learn wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:18 am
I mounted the boxes at 13" as per Shannon's video is this okay for Ontario?
I'm not sure there's a code for receptacle height, there isn't an NEC code the US. I've always just used a hammer's length from the floor when I do construction. For light switches, I like to mount them no higher than 48" to the top of the box. (Think of people in wheelchairs, small children, etc.).
Love2Learn wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:22 pm
A few more questions:
The pump itself is already connected via a separate circuit through amoured cable in the enclosed pump house which abuts the basement.

An interior outlet was feeding the pump house light and then the outlet via a cloth covered cable passing through a hole in the cinder block wall with the hole stuffed with a putty and balled up tape.

To correct this:
1) remove the old wiring that was passing through the cinder block wall and from light to outlet
2) pass armoured cable through a piece of flexible pvc to a pvc box
3) seal in and around pvc with putty
4) rewire so the outlet is fed first and then the light
That sounds like a good plan. The flexible weatherproof tubing may be a little different in Canada, down here in the USA we have a gray vinyl flexible tubing, and it works with box connectors called "glands" with neoprene O-rings that keep it water-tight.

I would terminate this type of tubing to a basement junction box (like a 4" square box you mount to a stud, and then just loose conductors gets fished through--they are THHN/THWN conductors. You just need a short segment each of black, white, and green for that run through the tubing with a good 8" sticking out each end.

You may be lucky and find a kit with the tubing, wires, and box/gland connectors all in one that is a couple meters long and will suit your needs.

Yeah the putty to use is called "duct seal", it's sold in a block. Just sculpt a chunk of it into a rope and push it into where the PVC meets the cinderblock.

This is the same way you run electric out to a house central air conditioner condenser.

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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Aaron » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:27 am

emtnut wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:28 am
I haven't seen those Arlington ones around here, but you see alot of the Iberville ones.

Not sure what they call them ?? Plastic box connector ?? :lol:
Arlington calls it a "non-metallic push-in connector".
I've used them on the driver boxes for LED lights. Apart from that, I like the metal box connectors. I haven't used a plastic box thou either.
The lock washers can be a sort of PITA. The best are just those common internal bar clamps in steel boxes. Those are nice. There are only a handful of boxes that have those here in the US, usually just single-gang steel boxes. It's more rare to see them in octagon boxes or 4" square boxes.

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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by emtnut » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:15 pm

Looks like Aaron answered all your questions. Just to confirm, there is no height requirement here for receptacles either.

For the panel, usually the conductors come in from the top if you are fed overhead from Hydro, and fed from the bottom for an undgerground feed.
In Canada , we can even mount the panel sideways (usually just done on panel replacements)
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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Aaron » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:07 pm

emtnut wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:15 pm
In Canada , we can even mount the panel sideways (usually just done on panel replacements)
I've seen that here, too.

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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by Love2Learn » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:58 pm

So grateful for your help!!! We passed rough-in inspection.

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Re: Electrical through exterior cinderblock wall

Post by emtnut » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:27 pm

Love2Learn wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:58 pm
So grateful for your help!!! We passed rough-in inspection.
Congrats on the rough-in pass :D

Let us know how final goes, and best of luck !

Personally, I would keep the green sticker (the paper copy they give) for when/if you ever sell. To me, it's a HUGE sign that the previous owner did things right ;)
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