Electrical Panel Plans

Ask your electrical related questions here
Sean1322
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:44 am
Location: Canada

Electrical Panel Plans

Post by Sean1322 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:54 pm

Alright, so this is about the 10th version of my electrical panel layout and I hope it's the final product! I will be upgrading from 100a to 200a and just want to make sure I don't have anything out of order.


New circuits/modified circuits I have added CAFCI breakers, and existing circuits that I won't be modifying in any way will be replaced with standard breakers. My panel is very old and currently has nothing but standard breakers (No CAFCI/Dual Function/GFCI breakers).

I pretty much opted to go with 20amp circuits for all dedicated/recepticle circuits simply because I tend to go overkill on things. Is there any issue with installing 20amp circuits for things such as a dedicated line to the dishwasher, fridge, or a dedicated basement freezer?


Lastly, I just realized there is a few errors in the picture. Space number 30, 34, 37 (crawl space sump, water heater, and furnace) are in fact on 15amp circuits NOT 20amp... I decided that would have been overkill as they are all gas and not electric.

Thanks!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Aaron
Posts: 3796
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:03 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Electrical Panel Plans

Post by Aaron » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:04 am

Where are you located?

I typically recommend 15A for all branch household circuits that aren't required to be 20 amps, and to run more 15A circuits rather than fewer 20A ones.

If you're in Canada, all your lighting throughout the whole house can go on a couple 15A breakers, and if it's strictly lighting (not one receptacle on it), it need not be CAFCI, unlike in the US where all circuits in habitable areas must be CAFCI.

Save the optional 20A breakers and 12 gauge cabling for the garage, basement, utility, or outdoor areas where you might plug in some industrial appliance.

User avatar
emtnut
Posts: 2052
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:21 am
Location: Canada

Re: Electrical Panel Plans

Post by emtnut » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:45 am

If you use a 20A circuit for recepts (like to the rec room), then be prepared to explain to the inspector why. ie, if you expect a PC or 2, couple of xbox's, stereo etc ... then either make that dedicated, or certainly don't go more than 3 or 4 recepts on that circuit.
(20A circuits are very common in the US because they dont have the 12 outlet limitation)

Circuit #10 - you can just use a CAFCI and leave the GFCI outlet. Up to you.
Circuit #13 - Ditto
Circuit #32 - 20A is ALOT of overkill for a freezer ! (even the old old power hungry ones)
Circuit #33 - Again, 20A is double overkill for a fridge circuit
Circuit #35 - Again, you have the option of CAFCI and a GFCI recept your choice ... sometimes (depending on the panel make) it can save quite a few bucks. Circuit #16 same thing.
Circuit #36 - Dishwashers are pretty 'green' these days, again 15A is more than enough here.

Anywhere you are adding AFCI to some of your existing wiring, you may have problems with the neutral touching or connected to ground. You can test for this by disconnecting the wire at the panel, and measuring continuity between the neutral and ground. If there is continuity, then you have to check all outlets to find the problem. Better to do it now, that way if you can't find the problem, you can adjust what you want to wire to the new circuit.
~~ Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford :mrgreen: ~~

Sean1322
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:44 am
Location: Canada

Re: Electrical Panel Plans

Post by Sean1322 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:33 am

I am located in Ontario, Canada.

Ok, I will definitely put the fridge, freezer, and dishwasher on a 15amp circuit!

As far as my 20amp basement receptacle circuit...

There are 10 general use receptacles on this circuit. I don't expect there to be very much use on any of them. My thinking was that it wouldn't hurt to install a proper 20amp circuit for them "just in case". I do realize this is probably overkill, but is there any harm in it? Is it OK to have 10 outlets on this circuit if it is 20amp?

More for curiosity sake, is there anything wrong with installing 20 amp circuits for the freezer, fridge, dishwasher? (Besides is being overkill). Full disclosure: I may have already run the basement receptacles, freezer, and dishwasher 20amp circuits :roll:

User avatar
emtnut
Posts: 2052
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:21 am
Location: Canada

Re: Electrical Panel Plans

Post by emtnut » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:43 am

Sean1322 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:33 am
I am located in Ontario, Canada.

Ok, I will definitely put the fridge, freezer, and dishwasher on a 15amp circuit!

As far as my 20amp basement receptacle circuit...

There are 10 general use receptacles on this circuit. I don't expect there to be very much use on any of them. My thinking was that it wouldn't hurt to install a proper 20amp circuit for them "just in case". I do realize this is probably overkill, but is there any harm in it? Is it OK to have 10 outlets on this circuit if it is 20amp?

More for curiosity sake, is there anything wrong with installing 20 amp circuits for the freezer, fridge, dishwasher? (Besides is being overkill). Full disclosure: I may have already run the basement receptacles, freezer, and dishwasher 20amp circuits :roll:
Nothing wrong, and not against code.
The inspector 'may' question you on why you went with 20A for the general use receptacles (he'll think you are planning a large load on the circuit). You should be fine if you tell him you just wanted extra safety margin.
Worst case, he'll 'ask' you to change the breaker to 15A (he can't force you, but best not to challenge him)

The dedicated circuits, just leave as is ... they're fine. And if Samsung comes out with a dishwasher/garburator/AC combo ... you're all set :mrgreen: (I'm just teasing you now ;) )

Nutz
~~ Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford :mrgreen: ~~

Sean1322
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:44 am
Location: Canada

Re: Electrical Panel Plans

Post by Sean1322 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:06 am

Haha ok, sounds good. My inspector has been impossible to get ahold of, so I greatly appreciate your help.

Another question that comes to mind... my house is a bungalow and there is a light switch at the top of the basement stairs that controls a single hanging light above the stairs. I am thinking of removing the wall and doorway to the basement so that it will be open concept. To do this, I would have to move the light switch to the opposite side wall. Would I be required to put a three-way switch in for that single light, and have the other light switch at the bottom of the stairs?

Can't recall where I stumbled upon that information.... is it correct?

Sean1322
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:44 am
Location: Canada

Re: Electrical Panel Plans

Post by Sean1322 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:41 am

Inspector just called and was extremely helpful. 3-way switch will be required!

User avatar
emtnut
Posts: 2052
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:21 am
Location: Canada

Re: Electrical Panel Plans

Post by emtnut » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:46 am

Sean1322 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:06 am
Haha ok, sounds good. My inspector has been impossible to get ahold of, so I greatly appreciate your help.

Another question that comes to mind... my house is a bungalow and there is a light switch at the top of the basement stairs that controls a single hanging light above the stairs. I am thinking of removing the wall and doorway to the basement so that it will be open concept. To do this, I would have to move the light switch to the opposite side wall. Would I be required to put a three-way switch in for that single light, and have the other light switch at the bottom of the stairs?

Can't recall where I stumbled upon that information.... is it correct?
Even if you weren't moving the switch, since the basement is being finished, that switch needs to be changed to a 3 way circuit.

Edit** Inspector beat me to it :roll:
~~ Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford :mrgreen: ~~

Sean1322
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:44 am
Location: Canada

Re: Electrical Panel Plans

Post by Sean1322 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:23 pm

So I will be converting my basement stairs from having a door at the top, and the stairwell completely enclosed to having no door at the top and having a railing over looking them. Pictures aren't the greatest nor are they of my house, but I think they illustrate what I mean.

Can I completely remove the stairwell light and switch in my case? At the top of the stairs is my open concept kitchen which has multiple dome lights and also plenty of natural light. I'm just thinking the stairwell light will be completely unnecessary, and the stairwell is already previously drywalled/mudded nicely so it would be a big pain running two new switches to that wall.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
emtnut
Posts: 2052
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:21 am
Location: Canada

Re: Electrical Panel Plans

Post by emtnut » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:43 am

I doubt the inspector would allow it unfortunately.

You could see if he would allow the Lutron Caseta wireless switch.
I'm not sure if it's allowed, because it's a 'required' switch. But worth asking.
~~ Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford :mrgreen: ~~

User avatar
Aaron
Posts: 3796
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:03 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Electrical Panel Plans

Post by Aaron » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:45 pm

I'm nearly certain that a light is absolutely necessary for stairwells, with 3-way switches at the top and bottom of the stairs. I think the light is only required at the foot of the stairs, though.