Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

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Flywelder
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Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Flywelder » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:27 am

My electrical inspector has required I install '3 hard wired, smoke and CO2, combo units' in my new addition. One in the foyer at the entry door to the garage, one inside a bed room, and one upstairs, any where but must be in the 'highest point in that room'. I will do the installation myself. My inspector says he can't recommend a model, or answer specific questions, That is not his role. That is the role of the electrician, or General contractor. (that is me, I'm the GC and electrician, and plumber and drywall-er and insulation man, also the home owner) My location is NC in the USA.
I ask all of you the following Qs:
1) Does a hard wired combo unit need to be installed into a 'special electrical box' in the ceiling? or would a round, blue plastic electrical box work?
2) Would the combo units come with the mounting box included and don't need any additional electrical mounting box for each unit?
3) Are hard wired combo units hard wired any more or is the trend / rule, now to use wireless types? My local big box stores have individual battery types and they have wireless types on the shelves, and no hard wired types?
4) Please Recommend hard wired types, models, for me to consider.
5) Do I run 14/2 with ground, to just one of the Combo unit locations, and then the smaller cabled wires of the combo unit, forward the powers to the other two combo censoring units? Or do I need to run 14/2 with ground to all 3 of the mounting locations?

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Shannon
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Shannon » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:38 pm

1) Any octagon box will work including plastic.
2) The unit comes with a base that attached to the junction box, a wire harness and the unit itself and maybe a battery for the power failure back up.
3) Hardwired was asked for and that's what you need to provide. The key is they are interconnected so if one goes off they all go off warning of an issue in he home. I don't know if there are any that work that way that are "wireless" now?
4) 14/2 to the first one and 14/3 to each one after that linking them together. "Kiddie" is a common brand here, may be better ones.

Here is a picture of a hardwired unit right outta the box. This is a smoke only unit but the products in the box are the same.
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Flywelder
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Flywelder » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:15 pm

So, an octagon box not a round box! Okay. and 14/3 to the other boxes, I didn't know. Thank you so much! Okay to Kiddie, I see them in the stores here. Cost is around $49.00 + for each here. And A package of 3 for $139.98 Thank you Shannon!

Flywelder
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Flywelder » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:48 pm

Now an additional question has come to mind. Where to get the 120 volts for the combo units from?
Can it be from a near by lighting circuit or could it be from a near by receptacle circuit? or does it have to be a dedicated and exclusive circuit?

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Shannon
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Shannon » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:41 am

They can't be on circuits with only receptacles,AFCIs, GFCIs and I believe not on their own circuit ,but I am not 100% on that last point.
Usually they would be on a lighting circuit so that you have a better chance to notice if the breaker has been tripped at some point.
Octagon and round boxes are the same type really, so either one that is the appropriate size for the connections inside that you will have.
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emtnut
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by emtnut » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:53 am

Shannon wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:41 am
They can't be on circuits with only receptacles,AFCIs, GFCIs and I believe not on their own circuit ,but I am not 100% on that last point.
Usually they would be on a lighting circuit so that you have a better chance to notice if the breaker has been tripped at some point.
Octagon and round boxes are the same type really, so either one that is the appropriate size for the connections inside that you will have.
I think Ontario has changed now, and allow them on an AFCI circuit, but only because the units now require battery backup. (I'll try to find out for sure and if it is CEC or just Ontario code and can let you know if interested)

Flywelder, it's best to call your local authority ... The requirements come from local building codes, so it's slightly different everywhere.
Did they specifically say no wireless ? Many towns are allowing it now.

Even if you go with a battery backup unit, best practice is always to feed from a lighting circuit.
~~ Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford :mrgreen: ~~

Flywelder
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Flywelder » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:21 am

Great answers SHannon, thank you!!

Great answers from you also emtnut, thank you as well! The inspector, when he was at my place for a rough inspection, which I failed of course, I knew I would, but he wouldn't come out for anything less. he told me two different times, to use hard wire units and that I will need 3 combo units. He never mentioned wireless and I didn't know of their existence at the time. So, I'm assuming he wants nothing less than hardwired units. Emtnut, yes, I would like to know the results of your inquire of CEC or just Ontario code. Yes, I would like to get the answers from my local authorities, however when I have attempted to, I was met with no replies. One message said: 'that's not our job. you need to talk to an electrician or a General contractor, it is not our job to tell you how to do these tasks, And, we can't keep coming back to your site time and time again. Twice at the most, we are too busy with inspecting many projects that are going on! That lead me to seek out answers on the web and lead me to this fantastic web site and Shannon's videos! Words can't fully express, how glad I am to have found these videos and all of you members! Your replies have helped tremendously!

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Aaron
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Aaron » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:40 am

Yeah it may seem rude of inspectors not to answer how-to questions, but if you think about it, their job is to come in, inspect, pass or fail the work, and run to the next inspection asap. Most have neither the time nor the desire to educate, and if they make repeat visits to inspect trial and error work they will start billing you.

But that's what these forums are for!

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Shannon
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Shannon » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:56 am

It is difficult for us as well though because different areas require different items set to their rules , interpretation of code or version of code they are currently following.
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Aaron
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Aaron » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:10 pm

Yeah that's true, we can only offer basic theory and (mostly) standard practices.

The system is really rigged for contractors, who do the work everyday and the code is just second nature. Some inspectors and contractors have cozy working relationships, and the inspectors often will just inspect one job done by a single contractor and assume the rest was done identically... I've heard this is common in housing developments. They don't inspect each and every house...

Flywelder
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Flywelder » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:34 pm

Yes what Aaron said is very similar if not exact, to what I have heard from other home owners here in my area, of NC. {inspectors and contractors have cozy working relationships, and the inspectors often will just inspect one job done by a single contractor and assume the rest was done identically}

Do know that even your basic theory and standard practices, are very helpful! And so far, all your advice and ideas, suggestions etc, have been spot on for me in NC! Thank you!

Flywelder
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Flywelder » Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:08 pm

I can't believe I forgot to ask for best location in the ceiling, for the combo detector, when it must be in the room that also has the entry door to a garage.
So, my situation is a small 6x6 foyer, that also serves as the path to a bed room and the laundry and the room that will house the pantry.
I'm thinking it should go in the ceiling above the door to the garage?? yes, no ?

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Shannon
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Shannon » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:10 am

I would say that is best . On the ceiling is always preferable and always keep them 4" away from any corner. Any brand I have ever seen has the recommended positions in the instructions.
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Flywelder
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Re: Qs. about Installing 3 hard wired smoke and CO2 combo units

Post by Flywelder » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:30 am

Okay! great! I didn't know, becasue I have not purchased them yet, as I'm still nailing boxes and pulling wire. Thanks Shannon!