Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

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kurt333
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:54 pm

Thanks. thats what I meant, just I will buy the small pail of drywall mud and mix by hand in the tray.

I have ripped all poly off inside walls now, and wall above tub surround that I can get at, I will acoustical calk seal it now 3 inch down from top plate and staple where the acousti seal is? or above it?
The person before has blocking installed 4 feet up between 16" center walls, some blocking not super even.
I have a 3", 5", 10 and 12" trowels, the 10 and 12 appear to have a slight curve in them if you look at them careufully, blue steel blade, maybe of no importance.


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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by Shannon » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:39 pm

Sounds like you are all set
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:19 am

A drywall board only has tapered edges on the long sides?
Thought it had on all four sides.
So i put the first drywall board up on ceiling.
I mounted it perpendicular to the rafters. So there is a tapered edge running along the outside wall. Is this correct. Then i have a tapered edge to fill that runs along on outside wall. I will have to tape this too.
or should i have cut off the tapered edge, then mounted that part to the wall.?
Also around the perimeter edges, some screws busted through the drywall and cracked it. As i tried screwing them in on an angle on some. What if i dont screw in around perimeter? I sort of am sitting a bit far from screw in surface as i cut the drywall to short abit.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:58 pm

Is this ok to have teh tapered edge running along the ceiling corner? Probably a dumb question.
And i ran 5 screws on each 4 foot run on teh ceiling drywall.
Should I screw all around the perimeter drywall too? Every 6 inch?
They seem to be popping through around the perimeter, Im not having real good sucess around perimeter as I think I cut it to short to mount in the blocking. Kind of having to run screws on an angle and not working out so good. Screws busting through in places on the 4 foot runs, if I run them in to far. I think around the fan housing and insulation stuffed in there, there may be more pressure pushing down...

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by Shannon » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:03 pm

Your procedure is fine. I have seen some people cut that 2" taper off but it really does not matter. You can either fill the taper before taping the corner or after.
When you are drywalling the ceiling and walls it is not as critical to screw the perimeter of the ceiling. Run your wall sheets up tight to be sure the ceiling board is up tight.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:15 pm

Huh, Awesome advice, just kind of what I was thinking too and from watching your videos on it. Thanks.
Hey is it not good or to be avoided to run a tapered side up to a flat cut side and tape and mud it?
Maybe for my ceiling I could run a few more screws in the 4 ft lengths of sheet to be sure, having 5 screws in on each run already?

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:20 pm

So it sounds like, if you run drywall boards, horizontal, your always gonna have a butt joint on the vertical joints?
Im wondering when is the time and place to run all your boards vertical, so you get all tapered joints?
I think on mine, in this small bathroom, the studs will not all line up on 16". So maybe no go.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:32 pm

I've run into very few instances where I've found framing accurate enough to run drywall vertical. Because of irratic stud spacing, it is generally more efficient to run drywall horizontal. While butt joints can create "lumps" in the wall, with only a slight amount of effort, you can avoid the lump issue, simply by not building up the joint too much AND floating it wider than you would a tapered joint. Thinner layers of mud and wider overall floating of the joint will result in a nearly flat wall.

When you do the final sanding, sand with one hand and rub the wall with the other as you go along. Mark any spots that need more mud attention with a pencil. You will be able to feel a lump at a butt joint, if you can feel it, you'll see it after it's painted and too late to fix it. Float the area wider without building up the height of the joint itself.

Shannon is correct with perimeter ceiling, because it gets taped, it will be supported just fine, even if you don't get a lot of screws into it. Screw spacing is 5 per stud/joist and every 16" to 24", depending on stud/joist spacing. There is no need for any more screws than that. Also, as you've found out, running screws at an angle doesn't work because the screw cuts through the paper of the drywall. Keep them as straight as possible for best results.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:57 pm

Thanks. Good information. Makes sense.
Should I avoid ever butting up a tapered end to a flat end? And taping. It wont work out?

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by Shannon » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:20 pm

I will install basement drywall often vertically. Many older homes are designed in a way that bringing sheets longer then 8’ down the stairs is almost impossible. So instead of having many extra butt joints I stand the sheets up. Mind you I take extra care in framing the walls to make sure all stud spaces are right on.
Across a 4’ width of a sheet on the walls requires 4 screws per stud ,on the ceiling 5 screws per stud.
I try to avoid flat joints with a tapered edge butted to a square edge. They just take more work to make them good because you basically end up with a butt joint to finish.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:54 pm

kurt333 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:57 pm
Should I avoid ever butting up a tapered end to a flat end? And taping. It wont work out?
Avoid it if possible, though not the end of the world if it happens. A combination joint like this is much harder to finish well due to the differing heights of the material. I'd actually recommend filling the beveled edge first, let it dry, then tape the joint as usual. It's going to crack where the two pieces of drywall come together, so filling the void first isn't going to have any complications with the taping or overall finish of the joint.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:19 pm

Thanks cats.
I got the second tricky ceiling pc installed. I had to remove the door, hinge, shower rod, rod holder. haha just barely went in one piece. thought it was gonna bust, had to make cuts for it to fit around a wall. This is tricky this drywall, but can get the hang of it. I like it. Making slice cuts with ruler, blade can wander on me a bit.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:31 pm

Good information guys thanks.
What is the purpose of paper tape anyways? What would happen if you dont use it? the joint will crack easier?
Ok so I will need to either build a boxed rectangle shape box around the vent stack the goes vertical and sticks out of the wall a bit two inches or so. Or I can build a angled piece that covers it, like about 16" angled one piece covering over it and attaching to the other wall stud.
What do you guys think. Is it better to have the squared corner of the rectangle boxed section covering the pipe, Or
A smooth, maybe cleaner look of an angled section one piece covering the vent pipe in the wall?
Can post pics if this helps.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:26 am

Pix would help, but personal preference tends to prevail.

The purpose of tape, any tape, is to act as an isolation barrier between the joint/crack and the finished surface, without it, the joint/crack will reappear later as the structure moves and the materials expand/contract with temperature and humidity. With tape covering the joint, the joint can crack all it wants, the tap holds the finished surface stable.

Now, the difference between paper and mesh tape is ease of use and where it can be used. Mesh tape is self stick, saving the pre-mudding step, so it's a little easier to use, but can only be used on flat joints, it does not like corners, whereas paper can do both corners and flats. Pros tapers tend to only use paper, whereas everyone else uses a combination of the two.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:25 pm

Thanks.
I think I can hang 2 or 3 sheets of drywall vertically. and attach them beside each other.
I guess i should go for it hey.
Otherwise if I hang drywall horizontal I always end up with a taper side against flat on the ceiling corner and butt joint on my verticals.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:21 pm

kurt333 wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:25 pm
Otherwise if I hang drywall horizontal I always end up with a taper side against flat on the ceiling corner and butt joint on my verticals.
An inside corner joint is NOT a butt joint. It really doesn't matter if you have taper going to non-taper in a corner it's not going to affect the results of the joint. When you butt a taper into a non-taper on a flat surface, in the middle of a wall or ceiling, THAT is where you can run into difficulties. The difficulties are dimply trying to even out the two planes quickly and aesthetically.

Outside corners are the only time a taper/non-taper corner can be problematic, as in a window well or finished opening. In instances like these, the taper will affect your ability to create an aesthetically pleasing square/flush/true finish.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:33 pm

Thanks, good info.
I am going to hang it now in one vertical pieces, and leave 1/2 inch at bottom of drywall from touching floor in bathroom.
Does 1/2 inch sound right.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:15 pm

1/2" is fine
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:14 am

So heres my first mistake. I can not fit a full sheet in my tiny bathroom door and stand up right vertical. Not enough room. So I can not hang drywall vertically, I should have known this.
I found this out after I made the cut out for the door. So I ended up just cutting the sheet horizontally and joined the two halves at the 4 ft mark, to make a butt joint there. So I will have a butt joint running horizontally for three feet, in what will be shelf space.
I left about 1/2 inch gap under drywall to the flooring.

When I join two drywall pieces together, can they be tight to each other with no gap? Or should I leave 1/8 inch gap?

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:49 am

No gap between sheets is preferable, while this isn't always possible, minimal gap is best, otherwise you have to fill the gap before you tape
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:19 pm

Ok thanks.
Is there any point or is it good for me to insulate the bathroom inside walls?
Will it do any harm?
I just had left over insulation so thought I would use it up.
Do inside walls get insulated in a house?

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:36 pm

Insulating bathroom walls will help slightly with noise control, other than that, there is no reason to insulate interior walls
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:23 pm

So interior walls are not insulated in new house builds and renovations?
Hey how much room should I leave around a window with drywall when I am hanging it on the wall?
I have 1/2" in some parts, and 1" 1/8 in other parts, where I messed up. I wonder if I should re do the piece? or put in a strip?

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:42 pm

The ONLY time I've seen insulated interior walls is around a bathroom or between bedrooms for the purpose of noise control. And, the only time I've seen this is DIY work or owner builder situations where the owner has specific plans or needs.

Drywall should go right up flush with the inside of the window well, then the window wrap will come out flush with the surface of the drywall. If the window wrap is drywall as well, then I highly recommend the use of metal corner bead, which not only helps protect that corner, it gives you crisp, straight lines. You can piece in the scab you need, just be extremely cautious when running your fasteners, as that small of piece will tend to break off. Predrill if using screws or use drywall nails for these pieces instead. By the time you get the corner taped and mudded, the scab will have disappeared.

I also recommend using nails to install the corner bead, as it will make mudding a whole lot easier and you won't be as likely to distort the corner bead, as will happen with screws.

Quick Tip:
When drywalling over/around windows, run the drywall past the edge or across the whole window, then use a drywall saw to cut the drywall flush with the edge of the window well. This is how the pros do it, it's much faster and it eliminates scabs and short cut pieces. If you can still get your hand in behind the drywall, you can score the back and break it forward, then cut the front with a knife, which is much faster than using a saw, but you've got to be careful not to tear the face paper on the drywall. The rough edge can be cleaned up with a knife or rasp.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by Shannon » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:50 pm

If you are using window casing then it really does not matter as long as the casing will cover the gap between window and drywall edge
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:39 pm

I am not sure what window wrap is and window casing is.
I will post a picture of the gap.
Around the mirror opening inset in the wall, I left a bit of a gap too, but I think the mirror cabinet thing will cover it.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:55 pm

You have two choices, you can "wrap" the window well with drywall, carry the wall board up to and touching the window frame, or you can use wood which will require trim or "casing".

As for the gaps, if your medicine cabinet will cover, no worries, however, you might want to carry the drywall all the way to the opening because 1 - the cabinet may not cover completely, and 2 - you may change the cabinet at some point, which may not cover as well as you'd hoped. Doing it right the first time will save you fixing it later and having to deal with matching paint and texture due to the patch.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:52 pm

Thanks guys.
I think for sure I dont want drywall for a ledge on a window. That does not seem like a good idea to me as I could have moisture run down and sit on the drywall.
So still a little unsure, maybe i can use cedar wood, or casing they sell at the store i can go look at first.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:07 pm

Here in the states the most common window finish is drywall sides and top with a wood or melamine sill and apron. In a wet environment or with windows that like to sweat, I highly recommend using wood, as it will hold up to the moisture. Melamine is like a sponge and will swell when it gets wet and be destroyed.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:41 pm

Shannon wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:59 am
Well first off the poly surface will likely have more condensation then an actual drywall surface . Once the drywall is on you will likely have less condensation to start with as the surface will be slightly warmer.

How much condensation can be different based on many factors. The top two IMO would be length of shower and temp. of water. These two will determine the amount of steam / humidity in the air . That’s why i say to go with bigger fan then just the recommended size based of sq.’ of room.
Yes true, now that I have the drywall on all the ceiling and walls, and no poly exposed and vent stack blocked off and sealed. I have no condensation build up on the drywall that I can feel. Seems to not be a problem anymore, like when it could be seen and felt on the vapor barrier before.

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