Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:46 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:07 pm
Here in the states the most common window finish is drywall sides and top with a wood or melamine sill and apron. In a wet environment or with windows that like to sweat, I highly recommend using wood, as it will hold up to the moisture. Melamine is like a sponge and will swell when it gets wet and be destroyed.
Thanks, for sure, I will go with wood for the window shelf and sill.
Goona mud it next.
I am still a little unsure on some of the procedures.

Do I go from Thinner mud to a bit thicker for the last final coat. Or thicker in the corner joints for taping then to a thinner final coat?
I have 60 min mud powdered in a bag i can use. And I have it pre mixed in a pail too.
Also.
Do I mud the corner joints and butt joints first, then let it dry, then mud and tape it after? Or mud and tape corners and joints all at once?

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:17 pm

The consistency of the mud will change, but the thickness on the wall is whatever is required to finish the wall.

Premixed mud, cream it with a mixing wand or with your knife in the pan before using. Most of the time it is helpful to thin it down slightly, which aids in applying thin, smooth, even coats. In a full pan of mud, I'd add a tablespoon or two of clean water, that should be more than enough thinning, but you can add more or less, depending on your preferences.

Hot muds, powder mixes that cure quickly, should be mixed with as little water as possible to make the material workable. The more water you add, the longer it will take to dry. However, too little water and it will fire in your pan before you have a chance to get it on the wall. It takes practice to get the water ratio just right for your working conditions and your level of expertise.

Mud application - When using paper tape, you have to apply a thin, even layer of mud to bed the tape into. Press the tape into the mud with your knife, smoothing and removing excess mud. If you don't put down enough mud or you press too hard and take too much out from under the tape, the tape will release from the wall once it dries, resulting if failed joints and visible air bubbles under the tape. Skim about a 1/8" thick layer of mud, bed the tape and lay it off, then skim another coat of mud over the top. When dry you will top coat at least two more times, sometimes more, to finish the joint.

What products to use: Hot mud and premix joint compounds are good for taping and second coat, these products are more tacky and dry harder. Lightweight, multi-purpose, or topping compounds are used for final coat because these products are softer and sand more easily.

Shannon should have some taping vids, if he doesn't, YT is full of them. It will take some time to learn and hone the technique of applying mud, but once you do there should be little to no sanding necessary when you're done. The biggest piece of advice I can give you is to work cleanly, don't leave gobs on the wall that you have to sand off later, try to feather your edges, this prevents excessive mudding and sanding later. And finally, scrape the entire surface down with your drywall knife after it's dry and between coats to knock off any large lumps/bumps. Once the final coat is dry, run your hand across the surface with a sanding block in the other to hit any rough spots and to feather in anything that needs a little fine tuning. Mark the spots that need more mudding attention with a pencil to come back to later.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by Shannon » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:03 pm

My full playlist of drywalling videos are here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 910F11A363

I would really not recommend Hot mud (quick set) for anything but maybe taping and even then the learning curve is sharp!
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Thanks guys. Im just flying along here.
Im ready to mud soon. ; )
Hey I only really have two outside corner edges, and I think I will just go with rounded style.
I see from your video it sounds like I need to set it back and not run it flush with the other drywall piece for the round corners to work.
What do you think, round style or sharpe corner? This round corner will be close to shoulder when you walk in, it is the end wall on the tub.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by Shannon » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:27 pm

really your call. If you use the rounded the drywall needs to be cut back 1/2" form corner.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:12 am

Round corners are HARD to do without a round corner knife to smooth them out. I prefer sharp corners, I think they look better in 99% of installations and they're much easier to tape. If everything else in the house is sharp, go with sharp, if you have round throughout the house, go with round.

As Shannon said, you will have to cut the drywall back from the corner by 1/2" for the radius to fit properly.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:25 am

Just outside corners, only two 8 ft sections.
Round corner knife? I didnt see Shannon use that in the video, I dont think. But will check again.
Are the round outer corners metal too?

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by Shannon » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:04 am

Round corner knives will help for sure. I don’t use round corners much and don’t own the knives for them
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:03 pm

So it might be easier for me to just use square outside corners. Sounds like square corners dent easier or something?
I dont have that special round corner tool either.
I have about 16" of space between the door when you walk in and the tub end wall.

And also. It sounds like the only time I pre fill before taping inside corners is when I have large gaps spaces. Is that right?
thanks
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by Shannon » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:17 pm

Ya use square. All corners will damage if hit enough .
Don’t bother prefilling unless you have a 1/4” gap or more
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:28 pm

Square it is then. Sounds good.
And for this quick set mud, I just thought I could get to the next mudding stages faster with it.
But maybe just use the normal stuff then in a pail pre mixed ?
Or could try a bit of pre mixed for the taping?
I think I will start on the ceiling inside corners first, and push the ruffled out paper butt joints in with the end of the handle knife? Then go fill in all screw holes, twice total?

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:31 pm

You have to hit a metal corner pretty hard to dent/damage it. They're much easier to install because they don't distort like the round plastic ones do. The point of the metal corner should stand proud of the wall surface, this allows you to tape and mud it in. Make sure you tape the edges of the corner bead, otherwise they are prone to cracking.

Not sure what you mean by prefilling a corner joint before taping, you have to apply a thin layer of mud to bed the tape, most of the time, any minor gap that may be there will be filled or nearly filled during the process of laying the bedding mud. If you've got 3/8" or more of a gap, fill it first, otherwise your tape won't finish properly.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:42 pm

kurt333 wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:28 pm
Square it is then. Sounds good.
And for this quick set mud, I just thought I could get to the next mudding stages faster with it.
But maybe just use the normal stuff then in a pail pre mixed ?
Or could try a bit of pre mixed for the taping?
I think I will start on the ceiling inside corners first, and push the ruffled out paper butt joints in with the end of the handle knife? Then go fill in all screw holes, twice total?
Setting compounds are designed specifically for speed, however, because setting mud cures much faster, it is more difficult to work with if you don't have experience handling it, but as far as it being appropriate for setting tape, yes, no issues there. You can control the curing time by how much water you add to it, so if it's setting too fast on you, add more water.

The way I do paper tape is to lay the mud bed. Put a curl of mud on the edge of the knife, apply by setting one corner/side of the knife against the surface and slowly lower the knife flat as you drag it along the joint. If you're working from a ladder, don't do any more than you can comfortably reach, if you're standing on the floor, the length of the joint doesn't matter. Once the mud has been laid into the joint, go back across the entire length of the mud with a flat knife to smooth it out and thin it to about 1/8" thick. Working a corner, you will need to cant the knife at an angle so that you don't remove the mud from one side of the joint while you apply it to the other. By "cant" I mean only the very tip of the corner of the knife is in contact with the other side of the joint. This will leave a small trough, but that's ok, it will fill when you lay off the tape.

To set the tape, tear off the appropriate length, prefold it in half, then push it into place with your fingers. Hold the end with a thumb, then press the knife into the tape to push it down into the mud and squeeze out the excess. Don't push too hard, you want to leave some mud under the tape to hold it. Finish by knifing the end you held with your thumb. Repeat with other side of corner. Now apply your first coat of mud over the tape using the same technique I just described.

Flat taping is much easier because you're not dealing with two sides of a corner.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:56 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:31 pm
You have to hit a metal corner pretty hard to dent/damage it. They're much easier to install because they don't distort like the round plastic ones do. The point of the metal corner should stand proud of the wall surface, this allows you to tape and mud it in. Make sure you tape the edges of the corner bead, otherwise they are prone to cracking.

Not sure what you mean by prefilling a corner joint before taping, you have to apply a thin layer of mud to bed the tape, most of the time, any minor gap that may be there will be filled or nearly filled during the process of laying the bedding mud. If you've got 3/8" or more of a gap, fill it first, otherwise your tape won't finish properly.
Ok so when you say square metal corner and tape the edges, you mean the all metal corners, without paper attached to them?
So If I use a rounded vinyl corner, without paper, I need to use tape on it too?
There is two different profiles of rounded corner, in vinyl that I see there. One with a broader outside round, and the other is not such a broad corner. I am kind of leaning towards it, but not sure. I will leave this till last in the job and decide. Only reason I would maybe go rounded corner is if I or someone hits there shoulder on the end tub wall when entering the bathroom, its pretty narrow and the door wont even go all the way because of sink that will have to go behind the door.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:38 pm

Regardless of the material the corner bead is made of, you need to tape them to the wall surface. Some corner beads come with the tape already applied, I assume so that you don't have to use fasteners to put it in place, I don't know, I've never used one with tape already applied to it. If the bead you're using has tape, no worries, if it doesn't, then you need to tape the edges to the wall surface yourself.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:34 pm

Ok interesting. I just am going by what I saw in Shannons drywall videos.
I dont think I saw him tape the outer edges, but maybe his had paper on them already.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:20 am

Some people don't tape them, I didn't when I first started, but found that over time the corner bead joints can crack, especially if the corner gets bumped hard, as many corners tend to do in high traffic areas. Taped corner beads can take a beating without telescoping that damage to the joints. Also, because this is a bathroom, you're going to have more material movement as a result of heat and humidity, movement that cracks untaped joints.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by Shannon » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:26 am

Any metal corners I use have tape attached and the plastic corners do not. I have never thought of taping a plastic corner but it does have merit in the idea. Either way you are good. We can get metal corner here with no paper attached but why would you when the other is available?
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:20 pm

Just curious, how do pretaped corners install?
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:58 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:20 pm
Just curious, how do pretaped corners install?
Thanks guys.
It looks like the pre taped corners just press in place with mud underneath.
I have seen the all metal squared outside corners, and it the can be nailed or screwed in place, the guy was saying there durable and they have been used a long time.

Hey I have a bucket of premixed drywall mud, mold tough, in green bucket from hd, and it says 2016 on the lid, does that mean its outdated? It is discoloring a bit on the side of it when I opened it.
I wonder if Im ok to just use it, shouldnt be a bit deal hey. Its not dryed out at all.
I filled in some screw holes last night and notice they shrink in, so need another coat.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:26 pm

I would be a little concerned not nailing the corner bead in place. In commercial work they use a bead crimper, which punches teeth into the bead as it's pressed into place, the teeth bite the drywall and hold it in place. The problem here is that without mechanical fasteners any good bang on that corner knocks it loose and usually splits the joints on either side as well, tape or no tape. Fasteners keep movement localized, so the likelihood of more severe damage is minimized.

The only time I won't use old mud is if it's turned sour, off smelling, mold growing on top, or dry chunkies are all over the inside. If any of these things are present, throw it away and get new, it's cheap and not worth the problems it will cause if any of these conditions are present.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:02 pm

Thanks.
I would think the outside corners with tape attached should be fine if they use them lots in houses. But Im not a drywaller, seems lots of other videos they use them. But also the ones you screw in seem to be a good idea too.
I think my mud is ok still, its not dried out, just a little brown around the top edge, I will just not use that part.
I taped a few joints with the quick set, and filled some screw holes and I think I will try the mud in a pail next, I think it may be easier to work with. And add a bit more water to it for the taping. But it also falls off the wall and knife easier when thinned out to much. I can see the need for wetter mix for tape.
Im also surprised how thick the tape is, its almost like a thin cardboard or thick paper. Is it all the same thickness, its heavier duty stuff than i thought.
The ceiling mud taping should be a bit tougher.
Another thing I notice is some of my screw holes, paper is flared out messed up, where I sent the screw sideways by accident and fixed etc. and so when filling the hole there is some paper that sticks out, kind of a nuisance.
Also on the joints, butt joints, the paper flares out where I cut it, kind of nuisance also, so maybe I can just push it with the end of the handle mud knife. I dont want to have to trim them all with a knife.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:15 pm

kurt333 wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:02 pm
I taped a few joints with the quick set, and filled some screw holes and I think I will try the mud in a pail next, I think it may be easier to work with. And add a bit more water to it for the taping. But it also falls off the wall and knife easier when thinned out to much. I can see the need for wetter mix for tape.
Mud consistency will affect how easy it is to do the taping and mud work. A good way to tell is by the way a bead of mud stays on the edge of your knife. Too wet it will slip right off the knife, too stiff and you can't spread it. You want it to be about like a thick milkshake consistency. If you get your premix too wet, you can had just a touch of hot mud powder to dry it back out, but I would ONLY do this in the pan as its used, I wouldn't mix hot mud into a bucket of premix.
kurt333 wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:02 pm
Another thing I notice is some of my screw holes, paper is flared out messed up, where I sent the screw sideways by accident and fixed etc. and so when filling the hole there is some paper that sticks out, kind of a nuisance.
Also on the joints, butt joints, the paper flares out where I cut it, kind of nuisance also, so maybe I can just push it with the end of the handle mud knife. I dont want to have to trim them all with a knife.
This shouldn't be a big deal, for the screw holes, a few taps with the knife handle should divot them enough to mud over. The joints, not sure I'd worry too much about them unless they're a serious ridge, between the mud and tape you'll have them covered in no time.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by Shannon » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:20 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:20 pm
Just curious, how do pretaped corners install?
mud both sides of the wall corner,put the corner bead in place ( I use a roller to set it good) and wipe off the excess mud. If you watch my video you would know! LOL.

Never ever see clinched or screwed on corners used anymore even in commercial. Like I said my local place sells them but I don't know who buys them?
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:25 pm

Shannon wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:20 pm
Like I said my local place sells them but I don't know who buys them?
You know me, don't you? :| ;) :mrgreen:
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:09 pm

Is it ok to over lap the tape on all the corners, top corners at the ceiling.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:13 pm

It's best not to because of the thickness it will add to the joint, but it's not the end of the world if you do.
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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:18 pm

So dont over lap any of them? Cut em short?

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by kurt333 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:34 pm

I think I heard in another video, to only overlap the ceiling corners of the tape.
I had already ran some horzontals of tape and so just ran the vertical right over it. Its in a shelving space so may not be noticable or matter. Maybe maybe I should not where it will be visible? I will try and run my ceiling corners first, then verticals, then horizontals.

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Re: Main Vent Stack ABS Pipe Sweating Moisture Buildup-Insulate?

Post by A. Spruce » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:07 am

I tape ceiling/wall joints all the way into the corner, the only overlap will be on the ceiling. I've never seen a pro taper worry about overlap in the corner. As for flat seams coming into the corner joint, I tape the corners first, then butt the flat joint into the edge of the corner tape, I don't overlap them. As for field joints, where vertical and horizontal joints meet, overlapping generally isn't a concern because the horizontal is a beveled joint, so added tape thickness from an overlap doesn't matter. If you have converging butt joints, then you will want to stop the cross tape at the edges of the main taped joint.
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