Replacing Bay Window

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kurt333
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Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Fri May 03, 2019 2:55 pm

I want to remove my bay window and install flat window, not as tall, but same width or similar.
I have vinyl siding. The window frame from the inside looks like 2x6 in this part of the house, the rest or most areas look like 2x4 that have not been renovated.
How do I determine the exact size I need? I watched all your videos.
I can start to remove the trim from the inside of the house first maybe hey. And then will have the measurement for sure?
The bay window is all aluminum one piece and broken seals so sweats, and is really drafty in the cold and sweating frame condensation, worst window in my house.
I can put in a slider that is post down the middle, or fixed window with 1/3 or so slider on the end or something like that. What is your opinion on what I should or could do?
Any thoughts on improving my house or front of house? My door just gets pelted with rain being storm side, so could I do a over hang or barrier or something? Any suggestions? Glass, or wood slates barrier wall? Or balcony over hang roof thing in front of house? Or just storm door cover?
I will be replacing the window on the left side later on.
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A. Spruce
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Fri May 03, 2019 11:37 pm

As long as you stay within the confines of the opening, you can install whatever size window you like without modifying the structure of the house.

Assuming that you're going with a new construction window, you would measure the width from surface to surface and the height, from sill to finished surface. The sides are likely drywall, so you will add 1" to your measurement to find your maximum width. The height will likely have a wood sill and drywall across the top, so you will add 1-1/4" to find your maximum height.

Going with a smaller window will be easy, simply add framing to the existing opening to reduce to the size you need. How much you intend to reduce the opening size will dictate how frame it in. The good news is, because you're staying within the envelop of the original window, you don't have to modify the structure.

You will likely need to remove siding to get the existing window out and you will certainly need additional siding to fill in around a smaller window. Luckily, the configuration of that wall will make replacing only a portion of the siding possible, basically only the section between the door and the corner to the right of the window, the door and the corner will hide a minor difference in color.

What configuration for the new window? That's kind of a personal call. I'd stick with the same color and a slider to match the other window on this side of the house.
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kurt333
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Sat May 04, 2019 11:43 am

Thanks. So I removed the inside trim and started on the outside trim and vinyl siding.
The window measures at studs measures 78 x 53.
It is 2x4 wall, I notice where they mounted the window, it does not sit flush or angled sitting against old siding properly. And air gap on side of window frame. I could see day light through it on the one side of window frame from inside. They sprayed foam in the gaps, but still, maybe that is where the drafty air leak came from. I will try post some pics. There is also or used to be a 2x4 going horizontal that was cut off that is where the window mounts in. I wonder what was going on with that.
So I have new windows from my mom I could use, that she did not end up using, 67x32, quality vinyl windows, costed quite a bit. They have post in middle and are slider.
Or I could go with home depot 72x36 slider with post in middle.
Solid fixed window living room.
Fixed with 1/3 slider. Or fixed middle with side windows opening or whatever. What do you guys think.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Sat May 04, 2019 4:31 pm

When you choose your window size, you will frame an opening that is 1/2" wider and taller than the window, this will allow you to shim it perfectly level and plumb. I would recommend using the existing header as the top, then do double studs on either side and under the window to give you plenty to attach the window, siding, trim, and drywall to. You will then install some uprights between the bottom sill of the window and the sole plate of the wall.

Window options really are personal preference. I think a fixed with 1/3 slider would be fine or a fixed with smaller sliders on both ends if you want something a little more "upscale" looking.
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kurt333
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Sat May 04, 2019 8:45 pm

Thanks. I will weigh my options, i get free window from my mom, but dont want to just put that in if its not the right size sort of thing, or right style.
Windows removed, bay window in three pieces, and little roof section all gone and boarded up.
Whoever did the work, did some cheesy work, they didnt put tar paper under the stryo foam stuff. So water ran down off the roof of the bay window and rotted a bit of the osb sheeting. They should have over lapped tar paper over that osb, then foam, then vinyl siding.
And there was a 1/4" air gap right into the house, if there was not foam filler stuff there. Not impressed with that kind of work to much. This kind of stuff all seems like common sense to put tar paper on or wrap.
Is tar paper ok to use? Or should I do that tyvek type wrap and seal it completely? Is there a point in doing that?
And I am really temped to shim my wall out on this living room window side. Make it 2x6.
I really want to see whats going on under that drywall for insulation. I just dont trust it. I dont like that paper backed insulation if its in there. R rating on it is what R5 or so? I have 3/4 inch df ship lap then 1/2 osb over top of that, then 3/4 foam R 3.75. So maybe I have a R10 or so, maybe?
I would need under to sheets of drywall to get this done, if even that. I really want to do it. See exactly whats going on under there. What do you think? Worth it? or not.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Sat May 04, 2019 9:25 pm

You would think that most things would be common sense, but it's so rare to find it that I call it UNcommon sense! :roll: You never know if someone was ignorant, lazy, or both, when it comes to shoddy work. I think a lot of bad work comes from being "cheap", whether it's the contractor or the homeowner that buys the cheapest products possible and/or installs said product as cheaply/shoddily as possible. Cheap is NEVER cheap or money saving, it is actually more than twice as expensive because of the shorter life span of "cheap" products and the extensive damage that occurs from the use of said cheap products that are used improperly.

Before there was Tyvek or similar housewrap, tar paper and kraft paper was the gold standard for decades, they all do the same thing and they all work very well WHEN they are installed properly. I think the advantage of housewrap is the size of the roll covers a larger area much faster with fewer seams, so you get higher product efficiency and faster installation time, which equates to lower bottom line costs.

Gaps in the walls that allow air infiltration is simply shoddy work. It takes no effort at all to install framing and sheathing correctly, and even if you can't go to that little of effort, a can of spray foam to close those gaps is equally zero effort, so you gotta be seriously flatass lazy to be too bothered to do any of it properly.

Craft faced insulation for a 2x4 wall is rated at R-13, if there are gaps, crushed, or missing areas, obviously your R-value is greatly diminished. The craft paper works as a vapor barrier and is faced to the living area. If you don't have craft faced insulation, then you definitely need a vapor barrier. Adding framing to have a 2x6 wall is something like R-25. I don't know the R-value of foam board to know what it adds to the overall R-value of the wall.

If you have the means to open the wall up to investigate the insulation and overall health of the wall, then I say you should go for it. While you're in there, this is the perfect time to upgrade electrical wiring and plumbing, maybe add data or phone lines if it's appropriate, and certainly, to deal with any damage issues that may be present.
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kurt333
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Mon May 06, 2019 1:58 pm

Hey thanks. They actually did spray foam the gap, but still, seems not good there was that gap right to the outside when I removed the spray foam.
The R value of the Ridged foam is 3.75 as it says on the outside of it.
And I cut a small section in the drywall, and see they have pink insulation in it, and vapor barrier over top, but no buytl sealant acoustic sealant. So it was renovated at some point. So my wall has maybe R15 maybe with the foam board? But the window was terrible and drafty.
I still would like to shim walls out to 2x6, then I can see whats going on underneath the drywall, But maybe creating to much work than its worth?
In a way I dont trust some of the reno work that was done on this house so far, it was terrible in some spots. And having no tar paper over the osb was another example.
I notice with my moms spare windows, that they can measure 31 tall opening, but you actually end up with 27" of glass, because the frame takes up so much.
So maybe I should order windows at least 36 tall, this is for living room. I could do 72x36. My opening is 78 3/4 by 53 or something tall.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Mon May 06, 2019 4:11 pm

Before you do too much to the interior, I would recommend that you make sure the shell is weather tight, especially if there are budgetary concerns, that means dealing with windows, siding, and roof. If all these systems are sound, then go for the interior.

If you know this wall has been into before and you don't trust the work, then opening it up would be a good idea, if for no other reason than piece of mind. Drywall is reasonably inexpensive, around $10 a sheet, which means the average room can be around $200 to install and tape new drywall. Additional costs will be furring out the framing, upgrading insulation, plumbing, wiring, or anything else inside the walls being opened up. Forewarning, drywall is dusty work, even if you can keep it to a minimum, you'll have a layer of dust over everything for the duration of the project. Living in a work zone takes it's toll on patience of everyone, so have a clear plan going in.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Tue May 07, 2019 2:43 pm

Thanks yea. My exterior is sound. Just a bit of rot or soft osb where water got behind the vinyl siding around the window and they did not run tar paper. So I could cut out the sections of rotted 1/2 osb. Or could just leave it. Under the osb, i have it looks like old tar paper in some sections, and then 3/4 DF ship lap. Me and friend re did roof when I bought house 3 years ago. So its rock solid now, osb overtop of the df ship lap. Lots of layers I guess. The rest of my house exterior walls looks like this, vinyl siding, 3/4 foam board R3.75, then 3/4 inch cedar or df siding I think in some section, then tar paper, then 3/4 df ship lap. And on this wall im doing, it is just instead of the cedar siding it has 1/2 osb.

Check this out, this gentleman absolutely swears by this...claims 2x4 with 1" foam board or R5 min board, is superior to 2x6 walls with batts. What do you guys think? I see in the demo he has no sheathing on outside wall under the foam board, so not sure how there gonna nail on siding and stuff. Maybe just they did not add that in the demo for some reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OirFPhg6SY4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYqgdLB10pE

Im at a stand still till I decide If I want to shim my walls out to be 2x6. And decide on window size. I could rip into this drywall and have it off quick. But you are right it will make a mess, as I know and dust. But now can run a fan full blast out the window or door etc.

What do you think Shannon, is it worth my while to shim the walls out. I have 2x4, and looks like
pink underneath with vapor barrier stapled in place. and then my 3/4 ship lap, 1/2 osb and 3/4 foam board r3.75. The walls I would really want to change or shim out are the ones with the paper backed old gryproc wool insulation.

kurt333
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Tue May 07, 2019 6:59 pm

Here is some pics of the window removed, and in left window jam area, there is the gap to the outside. And no tar paper, and bit of rot or water marks can be seen on outside on osb.
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kurt333
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Tue May 14, 2019 2:57 pm

Its hard to find any info about shimming firing walls out, from the inside of house, from 2x4 to 2x6.
I started to remove the drywall to see whats going on. And it has some sloppy work as I thought.
It is pink insulation with 2x4 wall, and 3/4 inch foam board on all outside walls of house.
Would I mainly want to redo my walls that have paper backed old insulation? Or Is this worth my time, wasting my time. As attic and floor insulation is maybe the most important?
So If I want to shim these walls out, do I just get 2x2's and attach them horizontaly along bottom plate and top plate and then do the verticals attaching to existing studs and use some screws to attach them in place?
And re insulate with R20 batts?
Or just go buy the R14 2x4 batts and keep walls 2x4?
Or could put foam board over top of the 2x4 walls apparently. Then use longer screws to mount the drywall.

In this picture is the header cracked because the stud underneath is not supporting it enough and up tight against it? And it looks like they just took 16" oc batts and stuffed them in a 14 space. Its not 16 oc space in the pic. And in some stud cavities, there was 2 inch gap underneath where there was no insulation. So it looks like a sloppy quick job not carefully done.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Tue May 14, 2019 3:27 pm

kurt333 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:57 pm
Would I mainly want to redo my walls that have paper backed old insulation? Or Is this worth my time, wasting my time. As attic and floor insulation is maybe the most important?
You will benefit from thicker walls and insulation, as the walls have far more surface area exposed to the elements than the ceiling/floor. Insulation works by trapping air and keeping it stagnant, so if you see insulation gaps or crushed areas, these areas are not working to your benefit. When you install the new, cut it to fit the width of the bays, plus 1/2" or so, so that you've got a friction fit to hold the insulation in place until you get the vapor barrier and drywall up. An alternative would be to drive a screw or nail into the side of the stud and leave it sticking out significantly to grab and hold the insulation in place. If possible, you don't want any gaps along the sides or top/bottom of the batt.
kurt333 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:57 pm
So If I want to shim these walls out, do I just get 2x2's and attach them horizontaly along bottom plate and top plate and then do the verticals attaching to existing studs and use some screws to attach them in place?
A 2x4 is actually only 1.5x3.5 inches, a 2x6 is 1.5x5.5 inches, so if you're going to fur out the 2x4, cut yourself strips that are a full 2 inches, you need this full space for the insulation to have it's full capacity. Yes, you will use longer screws through the furring strip into the plates and studs. The rule of thumb is that you want as much fastener into the wall as what you're attaching, so you'll need a 3.5 to 4 inch screw. Be careful of wires and pipes and anything else that's running through the studs/plates where you're running the screws. You will also have to move all your outlets and switches out, which may cause you some problems in some areas, if you don't have enough wire to do it, you might get away with extra deep junction boxes and pigtail extensions OR add a junction box with a blank cover. Any wire connections MUST be accessible, you can't bury them in a wall.
kurt333 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:57 pm
In this picture is the header cracked because the stud underneath is not supporting it enough and up tight against it? And it looks like they just took 16" oc batts and stuffed them in a 14 space. Its not 16 oc space in the pic. And in some stud cavities, there was 2 inch gap underneath where there was no insulation. So it looks like a sloppy quick job not carefully done.
I wouldn't worry about the header, wood cracks as it dries and ages, it's not uncommon to find things like this and generally they're of no concern. The picture doesn't flag any concern to me. 8-)
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Tue May 14, 2019 9:16 pm

Thanks.
I notice some of the pink insulation has that black sort of dusting on it, is that where a draft is getting sucked to the outside of the house or being drafted to the inside of the house? Or is it just dust? Or slight mold moisture?
Its going to be a big improvement I think. I am taking the other walls drywall off too, it has the gyproc wool, the old stuff with paper on both sides. I think Shannon or we guessed it was maybe around R6 at best. Its really not thick, I reached in wall, and can feel its about 2 inch thick, if that. Its stapled to the walls. Here we go, creating a big job for myself, but why not do it right and make it better hey. This can make a big difference? I will change this other walls window too while Im at it, or have it ready to come out with trim removed.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Tue May 14, 2019 9:31 pm

The black is probably just where airflow has trapped dirt over time. If it were mold, the back of the drywall would be covered with the same thing and you'd probably have signs of mold or moisture damage on the finished surface of the drywall as well.

You'll feel a difference with a thicker wall and better insulation and vapor barrier. The VB will also act as a draft stop as long as you seal it at the seams and around any wall penetrations. Whether or not you'll see any return on the cost of upgrading the walls will depend on how long you stay in the house. I'd guess that your savings in energy costs will pay for the work in just a few years. Factoring in peace of mind and freshly renovated house, the cost of the work becomes even more attractive.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Wed May 15, 2019 11:19 am

All the other old drywall and insulation is removed, old insulation measured about 1.5 inch thick, thats terrible hey. Maybe R4. Settles a bit to and un even, big air gaps in walls with it.
Does a house or do I need that horizontal blocking between each stud at the 4 ft mark? Is it there to only mount the drywall to? Or is it there to keep the studs in place?
Because without it, I could still mount drywall every 16 inch or so. So does it really need to be there.

Also I notice some diagonal supports of 2x4 in the wall on the corner going down a few wall stud spacings. And 2x4 backer I think in the corners to mount drywall to, Im assuming thats what it is for. It seems un nessesary to kill that much space in the wall with a full 2x4. Do all walls have this or need this?

The only thing I dont like about shimming my walls out to 2x6 is that I will loose some floor space, in my already small house of 660 sq ft. What do you think, wont notice it much?

And what do you think about the option of running 2 inch foam board over the 2x4 walls instead and mount drywall through that to studs with longer screws? Probably the more expensive option? Over kill?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Wed May 15, 2019 12:14 pm

kurt333 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:19 am
Does a house or do I need that horizontal blocking between each stud at the 4 ft mark? Is it there to only mount the drywall to? Or is it there to keep the studs in place?
Horizontal blocking at the 4' mark is called "fire blocking", which was popular in the 60's and 70's. Later code development only requires fire blocking on walls over 10' or 12' in height. The theory is that if fire gets inside the wall, it can't get far. I won't be able to travel to other areas.
Also I notice some diagonal supports of 2x4 in the wall on the corner going down a few wall stud spacings. And 2x4 backer I think in the corners to mount drywall to, Im assuming thats what it is for. It seems un nessesary to kill that much space in the wall with a full 2x4. Do all walls have this or need this?
Diagonal bracing is for shear or torsional support. As a wall/house is being built, an unbraced wall will have a tendency to rack or twist, the diagonal bracing stops this tendency. Once the house is fully built, it is less of an issue because all of the wall materials work together to hold it stable. If you have it, do not remove it. If you don't have it, you do not need it.
The only thing I dont like about shimming my walls out to 2x6 is that I will loose some floor space, in my already small house of 660 sq ft. What do you think, wont notice it much?
Overall, you will be removing a couple of square feet from the house, but it's a tiny narrow strip along the wall that you're not going to notice. For instance, a 2" strip along a 10' wall is only going to reduce the size of the room by 1.66 square feet, you will never notice this loss.
And what do you think about the option of running 2 inch foam board over the 2x4 walls instead and mount drywall through that to studs with longer screws? Probably the more expensive option? Over kill?
I don't like this idea at all, because you will not be able to locate the studs for attaching the drywall, and worse, if you have to hang something on the wall, you won't be able to find the studs AND the wall covering itself (insulation board and drywall) won't be able to support the weight. I think furring out the studs is the smartest way to go. If you want to further increase your R-value, then have spray foam insulation blown into the cavities, this will give you a much higher R-value than batt insulation, fill every nook and cranny properly, and provide an air tight seal against drafts as well as act as the vapor barrier. Spray foam gets expensive and I don't believe that it's something that anyone other than a licensed foam guy can do. The up side is, you may be able to go with spray foam over furring out the walls to get an acceptable level of insulation. It would take some research on your part to figure it out, I don't know the R-values of foam/thickness vs conventional insulation/thickness.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Wed May 15, 2019 1:08 pm

Yea Im with you on that, on using the foam board, seems not good, I read it on some other posts on internet. I think using just 2x6 insulation gains you just as good an R value. I think foam board as thermal break on outside of house would be good. Which i already have thankfully.
I think mainly anything will be a big improvement from the old 1.5 inch thick insulation.
I just see that backing boards and diagonals taking up so much space in the wall then i only have a few inches to insulate.
Maybe then I can remove the horizontal blocking if it does not need to be there? I can then run the insulation verticaly un interupted in the walls spacing.
Can i remove the vertical blocking in the corners? Does drywall really have to be mounted to that?
I want to run as much insulation in the walls as I can.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Wed May 15, 2019 1:23 pm

Personally, I wouldn't remove any blocking, you're not going to get any benefit from the added work and destruction. Drywall only needs to be attached to the studs and plates, no need to screw into blocking or diagonals.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Wed May 15, 2019 5:24 pm

Ya rigid foam is a much better option added to the exterior of the home. Spray foam is a good way to seal up air leaks but it gets costly quickly. If you wanna little extra R value use Roxul insulation instead of regular batt insulation it will gain you a coupe more R value points but it does cost slightly more.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:11 am

I removed all the horizontals spacers at 4 ft mark. They sure were nailed in there good if they were just a backer for drywall to nail into... I wonder if they are there to stiffen up the wall or something. I see in the framing window door opening video you guys use none, and no mention of them, but in some other odd videos they use them. I guess it might have been code back in the day for fire protection like you say. Oh and I started to pry out the corner backer boards, so to late now, there coming out, and yes youre right, it is a nuisance. I can then get a full batt in the corner though.

I just need to decide on a window size and go for it, thinking fixed window 78x36, and decide if I want to shim the walls out. I think maybe its beneficial to do, it would bring it up to code and more.
I think Roxsul you get R14 for the 2x4 batts, but pink stuff has an equivalent R14 that you pay a bit more for too. Or could use 2x6 pink, R19 and get walls to an estimated R25.25, or R20 with 2x4 walls Roxul. Or buy the R22 batts and bring my walls to R28 range. Maybe totaly over kill?? 2x4 walls in this tiny house sufficient..?
My attic is now R50-60 with some rooms lacking a vapor barrier. My floor has I think R20 at least, with no vap barrier, apparently R28 is code with VB he says, and foundation walls R something like 8 or 12.
My walls are the weak link with 1.5" insulation, and drafty windows on some... I probably have a total of R8-10 at best in the best insulated areas in my walls with the old insulation.

Hey I have a question about Shannons how to frame a window or door opening.
I notice who ever framed my house, they dont use the 2x4 under the header for window going horizontal right under the header, its just the header.
Also for the window framing, there is studs on each side of window, then jack stud under neath, then that meets the sill, then jack stud up to support header. So there is not that third on each side. Is this wrong. Or is it to do with weights and size of window openings.
Is that third criple nessesary under the sill? They also did not use the third in mine.
And instead of sandwiching plywood between header, is it ok to have nothing.

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Thu May 16, 2019 7:09 am

The important pieces are the full length stud on each side of header and Jack stud under each end of the header. After that you just need cripples in regular stud positions under sill and above header.
The horizontal 2x4 under header or 1/2" ply between header plys is not completely necessary either.

Insulation wise if you are shimming the walls out then just put in the right thickness for the total wall cavity. You choose.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Fri May 17, 2019 2:03 pm

Thanks.
Do you guys know if the spray foam in a can is one time use?
Ive tried cleaning the spray nozzle tube out with no luck as it drys u in the can part too I think.

So its ok to cut the jack stud for the sill to sit on and continue up to support the header too?

I see in my reno that it seems like the cripples and jack stud, that the weight of the header is not even supported by them.
Is it because they maybe ran nails through the stud into the header to keep it up, then made a sloppy cut that does not even hold the weight up, push up on the header etc.?
I will show a picture of the cripples, they dont even seem to be touching the header. They have them sitting ontop of the plywood shim between the header. Is this common to see this kind of work and no support of the actual header.

I think I may shim out walls to be 2x6. It may be just fine and more than good enough with R14 and 2x4 walls, but I dont know for sure. Its only going to cost probably 50 more for insulation R22 vs R14. And 50 bucks for 2x2 shims. Should I go for gold guys. Maybe better to be safe with it up to code and beyond. Make best use of heat? Loose a bit of floor space though My room is 10.5x13.5 roughly

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Fri May 17, 2019 2:06 pm

cant post pics,
Can I delete pics above and post a few here?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Fri May 17, 2019 10:43 pm

kurt333 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:06 pm
cant post pics,
Can I delete pics above and post a few here?
No need to delete pix, just make a new post with the new pix. There is no limit to the number of pix you can post, but there are size limits, both in dimension and in file size, other than that, if you can't post a pic, it's probably just a momentary glitch. If it persists, let us know and we'll get the site Admin on it. 8-)
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Fri May 17, 2019 10:48 pm

Spray cans do not always work after being used and sitting for a bit.

Sometimes the nails holding the header are enough if there is not much force on the header but the hacks are still required . Jacks must be a solid piece from bottom plate to bottom of header.

Shimming all those walls is a lot of work but really it’s up to you.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Fri May 17, 2019 10:57 pm

kurt333 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:03 pm
Thanks.
Do you guys know if the spray foam in a can is one time use?
Ive tried cleaning the spray nozzle tube out with no luck as it drys u in the can part too I think.
If you clean the tube and the nozzle really well, yes, you can get a second use out of it, but once you start spraying, it's only got a day or two before the can will leak down and be useless, so it's best to have as much of your foaming needs lined up to do in one shot as possible.
kurt333 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:03 pm
So its ok to cut the jack stud for the sill to sit on and continue up to support the header too?
The jack stud should be a solid piece from header to bottom plate. It gets nailed to the king stud (stud that end caps the header) to create a single, strong member to support any weight that bears on the header. If the jack stud is cut, this creates a hinge point and weakens the overall strength of the king/jack stud sandwich. If your jacks are cut, this is the sign of work done by someone who didn't know what they were doing, and quite frankly, I'd correct it before continuing. The jack stud should be in full contact of the header, as this is what truly bears the weight of the header and load, nails alone won't cut it. The sill would be cut between the width of the jack studs and supported by cripples on either end, then placed to continue the stud spacing of the rest of the wall, through the opening.
kurt333 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:03 pm
I think I may shim out walls to be 2x6. It may be just fine and more than good enough with R14 and 2x4 walls, but I dont know for sure. Its only going to cost probably 50 more for insulation R22 vs R14. And 50 bucks for 2x2 shims. Should I go for gold guys. Maybe better to be safe with it up to code and beyond. Make best use of heat? Loose a bit of floor space though My room is 10.5x13.5 roughly
For $100, I'd go for it, I'm certain you'll feel a difference, and if you can feel a difference, then it's going to positively affect your energy bill. Most people only think of winter heating costs when it comes to insulation, but it's just as critical in the summer months when you're running the AC, because the added insulation will also help keep the house cooler, thus reducing cooling costs as well.

As far as losing floor space, you're only losing space along exterior walls that are being furred out, so 2" x 10.5' = 1.75 square feet, it will be unnoticeable. If the 13.5' wall is an exterior wall, that is only 2.25 square feet, again, unnoticeable because it's a skinny little slice along the wall.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Sun May 19, 2019 3:08 pm

Thanks. So I will loose about 4 sq ft. by furring out the walls.
I will have to cut my spare boards on table saw to give me an actual 2"x1.5". I noticed the 2x2's at HD are 1.5 of course.
And on researching different ways of framing windows. Studs on each side, then jack stud, some all in one piece, some jack studs are cut, then sill sits on top, then the jack stud continues up to support header. Like the one smaller window I have. Maybe this is an older way of building with 2x4's or something. Or maybe not to code anymore. There were some pics of it on google search. So do I have to have the cripple stud sandwiching the jack stud and king stud? Some pics show without. Some high rise buildings show 3 jack studs being used.
Some pics show two sill plates being used. Anyhow, I like the method you guys are using, looks good. I like the plate under the header like Shannon uses. My one smaller window with the 2x6 header, the one 2x6 header pc. sits 3/16" lower than the other 2x6 , its sunk a bit, or bowed or warped or rotted, Im not sure why its sits lower like that, almost 1/4 inch difference. I may try and remove it and fix it first.
I also noticed they didnt have many nails through the header. So I put the 3 in a row every 12 inch or so, and Same with my 9 inch header, they only had two in a row. Unless they fired them through the other side and i cant see them? But Shannon says both sides should be nailed. That is alot of nails. So i put 4 in a row every 12 or 16 inch from the inside of my house.
Just found this article about whether or not you can split the jack stud or not. Kind of explains it. I guess its not to code in some areas to split the jack stud. So better to be safe and have it one continuous pc.
https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017/0 ... ow-opening

Would it be a good idea to run a cripple above the header attached to the king stud? Would that help transfer weight down to the jack stud?

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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by A. Spruce » Sun May 19, 2019 4:44 pm

Any time you have a joint, you introduce a weak point, so common sense tells you that splitting the jack stud is not a good idea. I've always framed with cripples under the ends of the sill plate, but they may or may not be necessary, depending on the size of the window and the spacing of the rest of the cripples under the sill plate. There really is no weight under a window (the weight is carried by the header, king and jack studs), so the framing installed there is more to carry on the wall stud spacing and support the drywall than anything else.

As for cripples above the header, again, just depends on the stud spacing and window size. If the space is more than 16", yes, add more cripples, if it's under 16", then the king studs are sufficient. All a header is doing is redistributing the weight that the affected studs would have borne, so essentially, the cripples over the header could be considered "studs" in their function.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by Shannon » Mon May 20, 2019 9:50 am

I used to always frame with a cripple /jack under the window sills (how I was taught)but many times now I will skip that on windows under 48" wide. Up here every extra piece of lumber in the wall is a place for cold to convect easier through the wall system.
As for double jacks under headers, that is required on openings 3M (9'10")or greater in width. Personally myself I go with double jacks under headers longer then 8' to be safe.
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Re: Replacing Bay Window

Post by kurt333 » Mon May 20, 2019 9:23 pm

Sounds good.
The cripple under the sill attached to the jack doesnt sound as important to me as the cripple above the header and jack. I would think weight would tranfer straight down. But yea no biggie.
I guess they dont want you splitting the jack, to do with snow load and seismic things could cause and the hinge point creating by splitting the jack stud.
On my one window I had to leave it split, I could not remove the jack stud above the sill, they were just in there to much, I tried to remove. But I think window is attached to it, and im not taking out window right now on that one. Its hard to remove some of the studs as they are nails from the outside of the wall too.
I did manage to get the 2x6 header removed with much prying and cracking of the header df wood, it had a large knot in it, and was bowed. They didnt have many nails through it, and was spaced with no plywood in middle and it had a gap between them, so not sure what was up with that.
So put in new header. I ran a lot of nails through it from both sides, attaching the two 2x6's together.

Hey is there a number of different methods to attach and build corners of exterior walls joining?
Is just an L shape join acceptable or strong enough? Looks like some guys incorporate the backing for the corner drywall to attach too. Am I making a big mistake by having no corner backing for drywall? I dont see it getting hit. Or will drywall crack with no backer?

This is crazy how fast this guy frames a wall,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDpIYoNzeqs
I like how he sheets it and wraps it all while on the ground. I notice he does not wrap it above window for some reason.

Hey when sheeting walls osb, do I leave end gap of 1/8 inch? nail width? horizontally and vertically gaps?

I see with some walls studs and cripple etc. It almost seems pointless that they are even there. As there is no wood contact, stud to sill, stud to top plate etc, theres like a 1/16 - 1/8 inch gap and you see the nails coming through, just on some studs, I see it does not touch down completely. Then it would be holding up no weight right? And just there for sort of safety?

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