Bathroom flooring

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madonesi
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Bathroom flooring

Post by madonesi » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:39 pm

I am in the middle of bathroom rebuild, all walls back to studs and half of the flooring taken out and replaced due to water damage. I am going wet room setup.

The Challenge I have is the existing flooring 2 plywood sheets on top of each other, grout and tile makes up only to 2". I have two areas of bathroom that will need to be flat surface (toilet & bathtub) I plan on using Schluter products for walls, flooring to seal it all including 32" floor drain, but here is what I need help on.

I will have a shower unit in the middle of bathroom on one wall, bathtub to the right, toilet to the left and on the other side two sinks. I plan on sloping the floor in the middle area which will be 61" wide and one side to the other side of bathroom walls 89", which will slope into 32" floor drain by using mud to create slope, (slope being 30.5" on each side = 1/4" per ft = (2.5ft) thinking doing 3/4" slope little over spec but rather having water flowing nicely into drain). Do I need to add mud over the flat surfaces too? I know I have to a min 3/4" (.75) of mud and so if I go with 3/4" plywood on top of joists, then mud 3/4", heating 1/4" then grout and tiles 3/4", that will put me at 2.5" 1/2" higher than what I have today. If I don't need to than at the flat surfaces (primary near my door going into the bathroom) I can manage to keep the flat floor level with my other room flooring.

NOTE: of course to create the slope from joist level to drain I will drop the flooring to be flush within the middle floor joists.

Hope this makes sense and someone can tell me if I have to mud the whole floor or not?


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Shannon
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Re: Bathroom flooring

Post by Shannon » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:07 pm

Ok I think I am lost? So you will have a shower that is 61 x89?? Are you having a threshold on the shower door area or do you want the tile from outside to transition into the shower with no threshold?
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madonesi
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Re: Bathroom flooring

Post by madonesi » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:37 am

Shannon wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:07 pm
Ok I think I am lost? So you will have a shower that is 61 x89?? Are you having a threshold on the shower door area or do you want the tile from outside to transition into the shower with no threshold?
its a wet room bathroom so all open no shower doors and thus why the slope area is so large.

DanM
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Re: Bathroom flooring

Post by DanM » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:29 pm

For starters there's a few other things to think about too. Is your entire floor going to be small mosaic tiles (2x2 or smaller)? You're saying 3/4" for tiles + thinset so that leads me to believe you plan on using bigger tiles, but that just isn't going to work. There's a very good reason why shower areas always use very small tiles on the shower floor. Larger tiles do not work well on non-true surfaces, it's a complete no go. The large sloped area will not be true at all because it will always slope in 2 directions relative to the surface of a tile. That's just begging for tiles to crack a few years down the road, plus you're going to have lippage all over the place which won't do you any favours when you want things to drain properly. It's going to cause little mini puddles all over the place.

Also, from what it sounds like you want the floor drain to be flush with the top of the joists if I'm reading that correctly. I really don't think that's a good idea. Tiles need to be very well supported or you're asking for trouble, and some blocking in between the joists with 3/4" plywood on them is not going to cut it IMHO, even if it's only a smaller area in the middle of the room.

Can you pack the whole room with mortar? Yes, you can. If you really want to go ahead with the wet room idea even the areas you want flat should be sloped, otherwise you're defeating the purpose of a wet room since the flat areas will not drain. Additionally, if your mortar bed requires a minimum thickness of 3/4" that's at the lowest point (ie: the drain), not at the high point of the room (your doorway to the adjoining room). With the sloping and judging by what you've said you'd need 1 1/2" of mortar at the doorway, putting you 3/4" higher than the floor of the adjacent room. I'm not sure if 3/4" is actually enough thickness at the drain either. I'm pretty sure it's usually 1 1/4" at the drain but I guess it depends on the manufacturer of the mortar.

Honestly I would reconsider the wet room concept and just put a threshold + doors around the shower, do your mortar bed in there and keep the rest of the floor flat and make your life easy.

madonesi
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Re: Bathroom flooring

Post by madonesi » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:05 pm

thanks Dan for the reply. You have answered my question, which is I really need to mortar the whole room. I am not too worried on having a lip from bedroom floor going into the bathroom I was just wondering if possible or not.

I am using small tiles for the flooring area. I put 3/4" for height to cover me as we have not finalized on tile type yet. I know smaller tiles can vary in size and thickness. We had large tiles previously in bathroom and even though it was flat surface a few did crack mainly due to kids dropping items on them so we learnt our lesson and good call out for sure :)

I've read loads on creating pitch in bathroom; 1. Build up the surround floor, 2. Notch the floor joist and adding sistered joist and the one I've used in past for shower area only (not wet room) is 3. Add cleats or blocking to each joists and drop the subfloor to below the top of the joists with 3/4" hard plywood. I would then have tiles and drain above that level. Are you saying I should not do #3?

DanM
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Re: Bathroom flooring

Post by DanM » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:28 pm

If you're doing smaller tiles #3 would be fine, but I'd also throw some hangers on the blocks for good measure. I assumed you were doing large tiles and didn't see any mention of sistering up the joists for extra support.

madonesi
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Re: Bathroom flooring

Post by madonesi » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:39 pm

that is good point on the hangers will do that for sure - thanks. Yeah no problem on large tiles reading what I wrote anyone would think that. I had to add extra blocking between joists for the bath tub too as we have gone for large bathtub. I will post up photo in next few days of flooring and drawing design of floor setup (hopefully I can get wife to finalize on tile type and size).

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Shannon
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Re: Bathroom flooring

Post by Shannon » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:53 pm

Thanks Dan for your input here, I have never done an entire bathroom as a wet room and have not done a mortar base sloped shower forever. I prefer either a shower base or to use Schulter shower bases then tile over that, but they do not come in sizes big enough for an entire bathroom.
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DanM
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Re: Bathroom flooring

Post by DanM » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:04 pm

On the wife front, just go get the tiles YOU want when she's not around and start installing them. When she says something about it simply tell her you're the Lord of Renovation, and as the Lord of Renovation thou hast decreed it to be in the best interest of the realm to useth thine powers of judgement to decide upon the finishing touches befitting a Lord of your status so that they may be installed in timely manner. I may have used this approach when doing my ensuite recently, and I may have been in the doghouse for a day or two afterwards, but it was better than waiting for her to make up her damn mind and she got over it because it looked really good and brought the ensuite one step closer to being fully operational.
Shannon wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:53 pm
Thanks Dan for your input here, I have never done an entire bathroom as a wet room and have not done a mortar base sloped shower forever. I prefer either a shower base or to use Schulter shower bases then tile over that, but they do not come in sizes big enough for an entire bathroom.
No problem. Though I've never done an entire bathroom as a wet room either, but in principal it's the exact same as doing a mortar bed for a shower just larger. I just really love doing tiles and I wanna maximize the time I get to spend playing with trowels and being artistic lol.

madonesi
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Re: Bathroom flooring

Post by madonesi » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:58 pm

Shannon wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:53 pm
Thanks Dan for your input here, I have never done an entire bathroom as a wet room and have not done a mortar base sloped shower forever. I prefer either a shower base or to use Schulter shower bases then tile over that, but they do not come in sizes big enough for an entire bathroom.
Yeah I even emailed Schluter to ask if they did a large shower slope and they don't today.

madonesi
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Re: Bathroom flooring

Post by madonesi » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:00 pm

DanM wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:04 pm
On the wife front, just go get the tiles YOU want when she's not around and start installing them. When she says something about it simply tell her you're the Lord of Renovation, and as the Lord of Renovation thou hast decreed it to be in the best interest of the realm to useth thine powers of judgement to decide upon the finishing touches befitting a Lord of your status so that they may be installed in timely manner. I may have used this approach when doing my ensuite recently, and I may have been in the doghouse for a day or two afterwards, but it was better than waiting for her to make up her damn mind and she got over it because it looked really good and brought the ensuite one step closer to being fully operational.
Shannon wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:53 pm
Thanks Dan for your input here, I have never done an entire bathroom as a wet room and have not done a mortar base sloped shower forever. I prefer either a shower base or to use Schulter shower bases then tile over that, but they do not come in sizes big enough for an entire bathroom.
No problem. Though I've never done an entire bathroom as a wet room either, but in principal it's the exact same as doing a mortar bed for a shower just larger. I just really love doing tiles and I wanna maximize the time I get to spend playing with trowels and being artistic lol.
LOL I loved your reply Dan, we are planning on sorting out tiles this weekend. I've still got a few electrical and plumbing work to do before can get insulation work done and then walling and then onto the flooring, but I might do that approach if we don't finalize this weekend.

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