Coax cabling help offered

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Thejaxx
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Coax cabling help offered

Post by Thejaxx » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:55 pm

I’ve been in the telecom industry since 2000 and have worked for Cox, Charter, and Comcast.

If you have a question on how to best wire or repair, I can advise.

I offer this because I see self installed systems that tend to be the cause behind the issue someone is having. “Best” ones tend to be done by engineers. :lol:


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A. Spruce
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by A. Spruce » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:58 pm

The wiring is just fine, it's Comcast that's F'd up! Any help for that? :lol:
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Shannon
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Shannon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:43 am

Welcome Thejaxx, we have not really had much for telecom issues coming here to the forum but keep checking back you never know when one will arise.
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Aaron
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Aaron » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:00 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:58 pm
The wiring is just fine, it's Comcast that's F'd up! Any help for that? :lol:
Whooooooo! :lol:

The answer lies in REGULATION.

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A. Spruce
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:23 pm

What kind of regulation are we talking about? Sensible price capping and minimum service requirements, or letting them decide what they're going to charge, provide, and allow the end user to do?

Currently, there is a move underway for service providers of internet to jack up prices, cut services, throttle data speed, and dictate what you can view. While I don't want to get too high up on a soapbox, I am going to post contact info that Americans can use to protest the annihilation of net neutrality. I would recommend that citizens of all countries brush up on their service providers and what they're doing behind the scenes to put in place similar controls and restrictions.

Call and e-mail Ajit Pai, head of FCC. He wants to destroy #NetNeutrality. Decision to end it is imminent.

Twitter - https://twitter.com/AjitPaiFCC
Email - [email protected]
Phone - (202) 418-2000

Call Congress (202) 224-3121
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Aaron
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Aaron » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:47 pm

The problem is the Internet has become lopsided with the advent of streaming video services. There is absolutely massive amounts of data just going in one direction. This has really upset the balance of the Internet and the peering agreements between internet providers.

Plus as large providers have consolidated, it's really put the power of the Internet access in the hands of very large profitable organizations. Normally even this wouldn't be too much of an issue, if those companies were like traditional phone companies. They are companies that for over a century just supplied subscribers with a phone circuit. Just a pipe. They don't care what you *do* with the circuit, they don't control what phone numbers you call, etc. You are paying for a basic utility.

But when these large companies get into the media business, like Comcast NBC Universal, the business model changes not just from providing Internet access but the need to control what their subscribers see and access on the Internet.

The Internet is basically supplanting their proprietary content delivery, an unregulated business they've enjoyed for over four decades. People are cutting the cord like crazy. I've *never* been a cable subscriber--there is just no way I could ever justify paying for television. It's absurd, and I was raised with this by my parents. (We grew up with rabbit ears.)

The only fair solution, really, is a metered internet. Pay for what you use.

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A. Spruce
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:17 pm

I too grew up with "rabbit ears" that eventually got upgraded to a roof antenna, and in later years an electric rotator - no more manually twisting the pole. :mrgreen: Hell, we didn't even see in color until the late 70's! :lol:

As far as I'm concerned, everything you said is merely justification of those who control the content to rape and pillage whatever they want for the crap level of service they choose to provide. Yes, absolutely, there is a cost of doing business, production of commercial content (i.e. tv programming), etc., but that does not give them the rights to abuse the viewers with the quantity and frequency of advertising content, or to control the manner in which you choose to use that content.
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by emtnut » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:46 pm

Thejaxx wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:55 pm
I’ve been in the telecom industry since 2000 and have worked for Cox, Charter, and Comcast.

If you have a question on how to best wire or repair, I can advise.

I offer this because I see self installed systems that tend to be the cause behind the issue someone is having. “Best” ones tend to be done by engineers. :lol:
Welcome aboard Jaxx :mrgreen:

Now that your here, some may have questions for you
~~ This space for rent ... apply within :mrgreen: ~~

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Aaron
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Aaron » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:54 am

A. Spruce wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:17 pm
I too grew up with "rabbit ears" that eventually got upgraded to a roof antenna, and in later years an electric rotator - no more manually twisting the pole. :mrgreen: Hell, we didn't even see in color until the late 70's! :lol:
I grew up with both color and B&W. We always had a larger color TV in the living room, and a small B&W in the kitchen. When I was in 4th grade and old enough to "inherit" the family home computer, my parents got me a huge console B&W tv for my bedroom to hook up the computer to. It wasn't a lot of fun using a computer that could produce 16 colors on a B&W tv, but at least I could use the computer as much as I wanted without hogging the living room TV.

We always got "good enough" reception with the rabbit ears, but we installed a roof antenna in the 1990s for nearly-perfect reception and better VCR recordings. Never needed a rotator as all the transmitters are in the same area in this market.
A. Spruce wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:17 pm
As far as I'm concerned, everything you said is merely justification of those who control the content to rape and pillage whatever they want for the crap level of service they choose to provide. Yes, absolutely, there is a cost of doing business, production of commercial content (i.e. tv programming), etc., but that does not give them the rights to abuse the viewers with the quantity and frequency of advertising content, or to control the manner in which you choose to use that content.
I'm not justifying anything, I'm just pragmatically explaining what has happened. I'm not happy with it at all. The Internet was never created for mass one-way traffic. It works, but carriers of unbalanced traffic need to start billing their peers if they are receiving more than they are sending.

In the past before streaming video, everything was relatively balanced. So carriers don't even bill one other because it's always was a wash.

Ironically, bit torrent is the solution. It distributes data peer-to-peer. So if you're streaming, say, a new episode of Game of Thrones that millions of other people are also streaming, you could instead download packets from your neighbor, who is 10 minutes ahead of you in the show. That keeps traffic on the edges of the network where it is much more efficient!

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A. Spruce
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:48 pm

Aaron wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:54 am
I'm not justifying anything, I'm just pragmatically explaining what has happened.
I wasn't accusing you of justifying anything, I'm saying that is the exactly how those in control of the medium justify crap service at premium rates. The US has some of the worst and most expensive internet and cell service in the world because of corporate greed, and they want to make it even worse by taking away net neutrality.
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Aaron
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Aaron » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:34 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:48 pm
I wasn't accusing you of justifying anything, I'm saying that is the exactly how those in control of the medium justify crap service at premium rates. The US has some of the worst and most expensive internet and cell service in the world because of corporate greed, and they want to make it even worse by taking away net neutrality.
I blame crap service on just the general ignorance of most Americans. If you don't know better, then you have no demand for anything better. People are slowly waking up and realizing their ignorance is expensive.

Thejaxx
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Thejaxx » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:27 am

I think this went off the rails.

I was offering help with general questions, not for an argument on “what huge corporation to hate on” topic.

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Shannon
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Shannon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:08 am

Thejaxx wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:27 am
I think this went off the rails.

I was offering help with general questions, not for an argument on “what huge corporation to hate on” topic.
I would agree, thanks for coming around to help out here .
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A. Spruce
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:32 pm

Thejaxx wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:27 am
I think this went off the rails.
Yeah, that happens sometimes, sorry about that.
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Aaron
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Aaron » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:09 pm

So to get the topic back on track. I picked up 1000 feet of RG-6 quad shield Siamese coax, and ran a couple coax jacks in each room of the house. I don't have any cable service provider. I have it all hanging and stubbed out in the basement in one area and the cable is just dangling... Is there any good "patch panel" for coax that you know of? I was thinking I would fabricate one out of a plate of steel and male-to-male barrel connectors.

It's a system that is sensitive to loss, I know that. Each splice has so many dB of singal loss, and splitters halve the signal (at least).

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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Thejaxx » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:19 pm

A splice will usually lose around .5db, so it’s not to much. Splitters are where most of the loss happens. Each split will half the power basically.

2-way = -3.5dBmV
3-way = -3.5/-7/-7 or 5.5 if balanced
4-way = -7
6 or 8 = -11

But having home runs, like you have is best. It allows for a unity gain amp in place of splitters. I still see new build and remodels that daisy chain, they of course have nothing but issues.

As for the panel, I’m partial to the On-Q and Leviton. Both make good panels, along with insert modules. I would not use the amps they sell though, they tend to introduce some noise. Both have network switches though that are made to be put in.

If you do the fittings yourself, use compression style, not crimp. With digital, you want to avoid changing the impedance as much as possible.

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Aaron
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Aaron » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:37 pm

Thejaxx wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:19 pm
A splice will usually lose around .5db, so it’s not to much. Splitters are where most of the loss happens. Each split will half the power basically.

2-way = -3.5dBmV
3-way = -3.5/-7/-7 or 5.5 if balanced
4-way = -7
6 or 8 = -11
Yeah I figured it is best to just terminate each run to a patch-panel type of thing, similar to how you would terminate Cat 5e/6. Thing is, while Cat 5e/6 patch panels are easy to find, coax ones are not. I think with new construction homes they have all their coax home runs terminate outside the house into a box or panel the cable company puts out there.

My house is old, so my home runs go to the basement instead. There's still a cable company panel/box thing outside, but that is just a splice block with a ground wire attached to it.
Thejaxx wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:19 pm
But having home runs, like you have is best. It allows for a unity gain amp in place of splitters. I still see new build and remodels that daisy chain, they of course have nothing but issues.
Yeah daisy-chaining is bad for any sort of wiring except power. Not to rip on electricians, but many of them have no idea how low-voltage and signaling work at all and they're often the ones doing LV work in new homes. I'm an old telco guy.

Is the unity gain amp for everything? Cable TV? Dish? Antenna?
Thejaxx wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:19 pm
As for the panel, I’m partial to the On-Q and Leviton. Both make good panels, along with insert modules. I would not use the amps they sell though, they tend to introduce some noise. Both have network switches though that are made to be put in.
I like those panels too, for normal residential homes. They look clean and organized.

I'm an uber geek, though, so I have everything exposed and bolted to plywood in my basement. I have a 19" wide rack bracket with my switch and a patch panel.

I was thinking there should be a coax patch panel that could get installed in that rack, but I don't think it exists. Or at least it would be something custom-made. I have some 18 terminations to do, I think with all the rooms of the house that I ran coax.
Thejaxx wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:19 pm
If you do the fittings yourself, use compression style, not crimp. With digital, you want to avoid changing the impedance as much as possible.
Yeah I definitely used the compression style. Much better. I've gone through pain and waste figuring out the correct stripping and compression offsets of the tool, but I think I've got a pretty good idea how to do it properly now. My compression tool is made my Paladin and I use their connectors too. I have some Thomas & Betts connectors that I got from eBay that I could never get crimped on correctly, they kept pulling off the end of the cable really easily.

Thejaxx
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by Thejaxx » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:03 am

Aaron wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:37 pm

Yeah I figured it is best to just terminate each run to a patch-panel type of thing, similar to how you would terminate Cat 5e/6. Thing is, while Cat 5e/6 patch panels are easy to find, coax ones are not. I think with new construction homes they have all their coax home runs terminate outside the house into a box or panel the cable company puts out there.

My house is old, so my home runs go to the basement instead. There's still a cable company panel/box thing outside, but that is just a splice block with a ground wire attached.
I've seen them mainly for rackmounts. Like this?
0014118_32-port-fully-loaded-f-type-coaxial-patch-panel-2u.jpeg
0014118_32-port-fully-loaded-f-type-coaxial-patch-panel-2u.jpeg (69.25 KiB) Viewed 23 times
Is the unity gain amp for everything? Cable TV? Dish? Antenna?
I believe sat has their own type of system. The unity gain amp would be for a two way system, like cable. It puts out the same signal that is coming in. This is important as systems move more towards an IP video delivery system, like X1. We use the one from Commscope:
71ifDpHHi5L._SL1500_.jpg
71ifDpHHi5L._SL1500_.jpg (49.62 KiB) Viewed 23 times
Yeah I definitely used the compression style. Much better. I've gone through pain and waste figuring out the correct stripping and compression offsets of the tool, but I think I've got a pretty good idea how to do it properly now. My compression tool is made my Paladin and I use their connectors too. I have some Thomas & Betts connectors that I got from eBay that I could never get crimped on correctly, they kept pulling off the end of the cable really easily.
As long as there is no braiding hanging out and the dielectric is flush inside, should be solid.

And there is no need for "gold plated" fittings or splitters. It's not going help, only cause trouble down the road. Cause if you look at the back of the devices you're connecting to, its not gold. It will actually cause corrosion due to the metal mismatch.

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A. Spruce
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Re: Coax cabling help offered

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:47 pm

Silly question, why is there a drop across splitters, particularly multi-splitters?
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