I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

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amitt
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I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by amitt » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:09 am

Hi,

I found that under the carpet, there's a very ugly looking tile, that it is literally falling apart around the furnace registers, in addition, it is glued to the sub-floor by black mastic, which I read that is probably asbestos.

Does the tile look like it's made of asbestos? ( I will send it to the lab but just wanted to see what you think until then), who would actually go to the store and chose this ugly color of tile, it is not reasonable, and makes me think that the house builder just gave it as standard so that people can install what they want on it.

In addition, if that's not enough, I called the abatement contractor that did another work for us, and showed him the crumbling tile around the register, and he says that there's asbestos paper around the register boot, I looked again and can't really see anything that looks like paper, is this the yellowish part near the boot?

Under the house, the whole system was replaced with new flexible type of duct, but they wrapped the registers boots with something that looks like fiberglass, so I can't see the paper unless I peal off the fiberglass.

Do you recommend replacing the boots? or the boots and the whole duct system even though it is only about 10 years old?

Can I remove the carpet, prime the tile , and install laminate floor on it, or do I need to remove it because it is falling apart and the primer will not encapsulate it?

Thanks!
Amitt
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Shannon
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by Shannon » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:13 pm

If you get looking in any older home you will find asbestos. There could be asbestos in any of that.
Your pictures are so close up it is hard for me to really see.
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A. Spruce
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by A. Spruce » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:54 pm

Any home built pre 1978 is sure to contain asbestos of some sort. Vinyl tile of that era had it, the glue may or may not, It looks like it's probably cut-back which will require a solvent to remove. There are eco friendly cut-back removers on the market, but you'll probably have to go to a contractors supply house for it.

The boots were probably installed at the same time the new flex duct was, which means the wrap on the boots is probably fiberglass.

Testing is the only way to know for certain.
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amitt
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by amitt » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:33 am

Thanks for the reply, I called a duct guy today, he pealed the fiberglass from the boot in the crawl space, and he saw white paper that is falling apart, he says it's asbestos.

Apparently the previous owner wanted to save money, and replaced only the duct while leaving the asbestos boots, and covering them with fiberglass.

Is this a safety hazard?

He gave me a quote for $960 to replace 6 registers and re-route the air return to the furnace in the attic( the current has asbestos) to the hall way so it will not make noise in the living room.

Or, $2200 to reroute the return vent, replace 6 boots, but also the complete duct system, because he says it may be contaminated.

Is this reasonable? What kind of things should I ask him to promise me?( leak test etc )
Does this work require permit? he never mentioned it.

Thanks,
Amitt
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Shannon
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by Shannon » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:43 am

Asbestoes can be a safety hazard especially if it is disturbed/breaking up . This also becomes a concern when it is in the forced air furnace system because if it is breaking up it will be blowing through your home.IMO the stuff on the outside of your elbows wrapped in fibreglass may not be a problem or the cardboard looking stuff because it is not really in the duct but the crumbling tile could be.
Many places require a permit to at least dispose of it I believe.
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amitt
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by amitt » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:13 am

Thanks Shannon,
Do you think that it is a good idea to remove the carpet, vaccum debris, prime the tiles with paint, and then install a thick wood underlayement to encapsulate, and then foam underpayment and laminate floor?

Does it sound like a reasonable plan?

Is the wood underpayment really necessary?
Thanks,
Amitt

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Shannon
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by Shannon » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:42 am

That tile is likely to have asbestos so if you vacuum use a glass of hepa filter and you may want to lightly dampen the broken areas to keep dust settled. I’m really not sure that priming the tiles will do anything. If the tiles are not crumbling or being broken up there is low risk of getting givers airborne.
Laminate floor should not require wood subfloor over this existing floor.
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amitt
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by amitt » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:27 pm

Yes so this tile is 3% asbestos, and the black mastic is not asbestos, just got the results.
The paper around the registers boots is also asbestos , 30%.

My questions:
1) would you replace the entire duct system with the boots and flex duct, because pieces from the tile may have fallen in the boots, and also there may be pieces of paper that are trapped between the old boot and the new flex.
I got an offer to do it for $4000 including abatement.

2) How can I remove the carpet and its foam in a way that will not produce dust of asbestos and leave me with exposed 50 year old asbestos floor and possible little pieces of it ?

Should I prime it to encapsulate this dust and then put a laminate foam underlayement? what kind of underlayment?

3) there's a thin piece of wood with nails that was holding the carpet down all around the house ( see attached picture) , how can I tear up this wood to make it a flat surface without producing asbestos dust?

Thanks,
Amitt
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Shannon
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by Shannon » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:58 pm

I guess if the asbestos is in the ducts and is coming apart I would likely change them. Personally there is so little asbestos in them IMO I would do the removal myself if you local city allows it. Wear a P100 filter respirator, turn off all forced air furnace and fans and bag everything as you remove it. That should save some money.

As long as you are not breaking up the tiles a bunch as you do it there should be minimal disturbance.The fibres can become air born when the flooring is broken up. Spraying the broken pieces with with a bit of water to reduce dust getting air born and carefully sweep it up or vacuum with a hep filter vacuum and dispose of right away.There is really no way to keep from being exposed if you do this yourself. You can also dampen the carpet and under lay but they will get even heavier.
THE FOLLOWING IS ONLY MY OPINION AND YOUR COURSE OF ACTION SHOULD FIT YOUR RESPONSIBLITY FOR HOW MUCH EXPOSURE YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH. IMO I would just get it done, keep the room sealed off from the rest of the house and open a window and place a really good fan it there to help exhaust the dust.Wear a P100 filter in your mask and safety glasses. People who develop life long problems from asbestos are generally not the people who do small renovations like this a few times in their lifetime as far as I am concerned. There is asbestos in so many things around us in everyday life and most people do not know it.You want to control it from getting air born as much as you can ,clean up well and wear the appropriate protection.
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amitt
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by amitt » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:15 pm

Thank you very much Shannon!

Do you think I will be releasing a lot of dust by pulling these many carpet strips of nails that are stuck in the asbestos tiles? ( this seems like the same disturbance as the breakage that you mentioned)

Also, please look at the attached boots asbestos images, I could remove it myself, but how hard is it to route a new duct all around the house, and install the new boots? I have 6 of them, it seems so intense for 1 guy to do it by himself, doesn't it?

It's also 30% asbestos and not encapsulated with paint, which seems much worse than the pop-corn that I thought was my only problem at first, that had only 2%, and had paint over it, what a disaster....

Thanks again,

Amitt
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Shannon
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by Shannon » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:05 pm

Pulling those carpet strips should be no big deal. Until you do a bit you won't know for sure.
I thought the asbestos was inside the ducts in that one earlier picture? If its only on the outside of duct and in the crawl space I would not even worry about them. Routing the new ducts could be a pain but removing the old should not be bad if you have to.
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amitt
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by amitt » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:24 pm

Hi Shannon.

It is on the outside, but im worried about contamination of the flex and boot from the inside because of the crumbling tiles, is this concern right in your opinion?

I am bringing a laminate installer in 2 days to tear up the carpets and put new floor, he will use trafficmaster brand and basic trafficmaster foam, is this sufficient to protect from these tiles and its potential crumbling future pieces?

In addition what do you suggest to put around the boots on the crumbling tiles once the carpet is off, epoxy? Garage floor paint? Just regulate primer?

I would like to ask you for a recommendations for product name that can prevent it from crumbling into the new boots.

Thanks,
Amitt

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Shannon
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Re: I'm sorry to ask again, but I think I found more asbestos!

Post by Shannon » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:14 pm

I suppose some tile pieces could be down there in the ducts.
The bottom line here is if you are not comfortable with the situation then change them out.

Once the new floor is down and over this and trim is on IMO you have covered it pretty well and the risk is reduced.

I'm really not sure what to recommend to seal in the crumbly tiles. nothing is likely to keep the already crumbled pieces in tacked. Remove the crumbly edges I suppose would be best.
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