Retrofit windows installation

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gsahlot
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Retrofit windows installation

Post by gsahlot » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:34 pm

Hi Guys,

I am working on installing retrofit sliding windows but running into three issues:

1. Do I need to prep the existing aluminium frame from outside? The aluminium frame is ~1/8" thick but from exterior side, it protrudes a bit from the stucco. Meaning it is not flush properly. And it protrudes unevenly e.g. some places it flushes with stucco and some places it is not. See these pics:
Protruding4.jpg
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Protruding3.jpg
Protruding3.jpg (61.39 KiB) Viewed 79 times
So I am thinking how would the new window's fin stick to the exterior surface and wondering if I need to do some prep for example cut off the protruding part of existing frame, or apply a boundary of stucco (which will get hidden under the new window's fin) to make the surface even? Or am I just being over worried and can just install the window without any prep work on existing frame?

2. How do I take out the fixed glass of the existing window? In videos I have seen people unscrewing the vertical metal piece which divides two sides of the window but in my existing windows I don't see any such screw. See pics:
NoScrew.jpg
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3. On the interior side, right now I have this trim on window which I don't like. I would like to remove that, which I tried as well using a pry bar but it didn't come out easily. It seems like some part of the trim is under the frame, which I found weird. How can I remove this trim without any damage to the frame? See pics:
trim2.jpg
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trim1.jpg
trim1.jpg (39.45 KiB) Viewed 79 times
Thanks much!


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Shannon
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by Shannon » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:45 pm

I don’t really see windows like this but I’m sure the window frame is installed ok it’s likely the stucco thickness varies around the perimeter of the frame.
So you have nail fin windows you want to install in this opening? How were you planning on attaching them and then finishing the exterior?

I believe once the screen frame is removed you can slide the glass panel over and lift it up to free the bottom edge from the track.

My guess is that the sill slips under the window but you can likely split it free from the edge of window. This will leave a small piece still under window to support it. A oscillating saw would make that cut there easier then trying to split the sill.
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A. Spruce
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by A. Spruce » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:03 pm

1 - I've never personally installed retrofit windows, odds are the exterior trim has a cavity behind it so that it will fit against such uneven surfaces. If not, install the window plumb and true, then use an elastomeric caulk to seal the gap to the house.

2 - Windows of this age are held in by two methods that I'm aware of, glazing compound or adhesive caulk. This looks like trim (the light gray strip in the red circle ) pop it out, then use a utility knife to cut the sealant that holds it in the opening, from the inside, insert the knife between the glass and the frame. If it is glazed in place, then you need to chisel out the glaze and the window will almost fall out of the hole.
NoScrew.jpg
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3 - The window stool was likely installed after the window, but it was slipped under the window, shimmed tight, then surface nailed. Because you need to keep the frame straight and sound for the new window to attach to, you need to remove the stool with reasonable care. I would either sawzall under the stool with a metal blade to cut the nails, then the stool should slip out with relative ease. There may be some caulking holding it in place as well, cut that with a utility knife.
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gsahlot
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by gsahlot » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:33 pm

Here are some pics of new window from different angle. Unfortunately, doesn't seem like its fin has cavity?
newwindow5.jpg
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newwindow3.jpg
newwindow3.jpg (43.33 KiB) Viewed 71 times
newwindow2.jpg
newwindow2.jpg (23.3 KiB) Viewed 71 times
newwindow1.jpg
newwindow1.jpg (33.25 KiB) Viewed 71 times
newindow4.jpg
newindow4.jpg (45.63 KiB) Viewed 71 times

gsahlot
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by gsahlot » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:34 pm

...If not, install the window plumb and true, then use an elastomeric caulk to seal the gap to the house.
Doesn't look like there is cavity? Could you please explain more? and what is window plumb? and what is elastomeric caulk?

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A. Spruce
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by A. Spruce » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:42 pm

Then I'd install it plumb and true and simply caulk the exterior with an elastomeric caulk.

Plumb and true = perfectly straight and square in the opening and as flat to the wall as naturally possible, meaning, don't force it because you'll tweak the frame and cause other issues with the window operation/seal.

Elastomeric caulk is a caulk that stays extremely flexible once cured, similarly to silicon, but 1000X better, in every way. I've used both of these with great success

Big Stretch
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005VQ2X30/

Lexel
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BT3NFW1/
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gsahlot
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by gsahlot » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:18 pm

Do you think thicking up the stucco around the protruding frame edge to get an even surface may not be worth the efrorts?
A. Spruce wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:42 pm

Elastomeric caulk is a caulk that stays extremely flexible once cured, similarly to silicon, but 1000X better, in every way. I've used both of these with great success

Big Stretch
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005VQ2X30/

Lexel
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BT3NFW1/
Does this thing serves the purpose of sealant too?

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A. Spruce
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by A. Spruce » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:40 pm

No, I don't think messing with the stucco is necessary or worth the effort. If you seal the gap with white elastomeric caulk, there will be no need to touch up the paint on the house, which, unless the paint is less than a year old, it's going to be faded and require a total repaint to blend in properly anyway.

Elastomeric caulk is a sealant. It is extremely sticky and it is extremely flexible and elastic. I have used it on siding gaps on my house, gaps that range from 1/4" - 3/8" wide. These gaps are wide in the winter when it's cold and nearly closed in the summer when it's hot. These gaps are on the sun side of the house, so the heat and movement of the siding is extreme, and the caulk holds up for years.

It takes some effort to remove it when it fails (all caulks fail, regardless of manufacturer claims and propaganda), but it can be removed and you can recoat where it has been, unlike silicone that leaves a residue that nothing, including more silicone, will stick to.

Silicone truly is about the worst caulking ever devised. It's great when fresh and new and first coat, but when it fails, it will continue to cause failures of anything you use over the top of it because silicone prevents the adhesion of things to it.
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Shannon
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by Shannon » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:23 am

So these windows have more of a thin reno brick mould around them which in your case is good because they will not need anything installed after to cover it. If they where true nail fin windows the fin is not meant to be seen when finished and would usually be covered by exterior finishof your home after the windows are installed.Now how does the manufacture recommend securing them to the wall? Screws and caps through the brick mould? Screws through the jambs?
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gsahlot
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by gsahlot » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:33 am

Shannon wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:23 am
...Now how does the manufacture recommend securing them to the wall? Screws and caps through the brick mould? Screws through the jambs?
Screws through the jambs.

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Shannon
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by Shannon » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:22 pm

gsahlot wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:33 am
Shannon wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:23 am
...Now how does the manufacture recommend securing them to the wall? Screws and caps through the brick mould? Screws through the jambs?
Screws through the jambs.
Ok makes sense.
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gsahlot
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by gsahlot » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:10 pm

Another quick question - what do you think should be the size of the screw which I should be driving into the jambs? I am thinking 3 inches 10#. Haven't found clear instructions on Jeld-win website on size of the screw.

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Shannon
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Re: Retrofit windows installation

Post by Shannon » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:43 pm

That sound reasonable. You want to get about 1" of penetration into wood. I would also use a Pan head screw so that the back of the head is flat and does not easily want to pull through the vinyl.
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