hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

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DPFAST
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hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:39 am

While preparing the bathroom ceiling for painting I've noticed a little crack in the corner of the ceiling right above the shower. I think was made by the shower spring pole shelf where we keep shampoo bottles and stuff. I think the pole's pressure caused the ceiling drywall to give and created this crack. The picture shows a hole after I removed all the loose pieces. How do I go about fixing it?
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A. Spruce
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:54 am

If you plan to continue using the spring pole, go up in the attic and add some blocking to support the drywall so that this doesn't happen again. Use screws to install the blocking, hammer and nail will cause more drywall problems to fix.

It doesn't look like there is anything above the drywall to attach a patch piece, so while you're adding blocking for the spring pole, add some blocking to carry the drywall patch too. You need to support two opposing edges of the patch.
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:05 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:54 am
If you plan to continue using the spring pole, go up in the attic and add some blocking to support the drywall so that this doesn't happen again. Use screws to install the blocking, hammer and nail will cause more drywall problems to fix.

It doesn't look like there is anything above the drywall to attach a patch piece, so while you're adding blocking for the spring pole, add some blocking to carry the drywall patch too. You need to support two opposing edges of the patch.

So in the very corner there is a piece of wood above the ceiling but I will check in the attic first. How big of a piece of the damage area should I replace? The current crack measures 7x2. To fix it, should I cut out maybe a 8x4 of the ceiling drywall to replace with the 1/2 drywall piece?

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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:11 pm

Looks like the pole also broke the surface paper on the drywall, I'd replace out past that if this is the case.

There should be something to support the drywall in the corner, it just doesn't show in the picture. If this is the case, then you just need to add something 4" to 6" out where you cut the patch in. If this seam runs parallel to the joists, then you'll have to add blocking between the joists in order to install the block along the drywall joint.
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:45 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:11 pm
Looks like the pole also broke the surface paper on the drywall, I'd replace out past that if this is the case.

There should be something to support the drywall in the corner, it just doesn't show in the picture. If this is the case, then you just need to add something 4" to 6" out where you cut the patch in. If this seam runs parallel to the joists, then you'll have to add blocking between the joists in order to install the block along the drywall joint.
above the corner there is a joist with 1/2 inch drywall lip. I am thinking of cutting a 8.5x6.5 piece of 1/2 drywall where the 1/2 inch would slide in on top of the wall part. the joist would support the right side of the piece and all I would have to do is to place a piece of wood on the left side to support the new piece?
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:55 pm

You can save yourself a trip into the attic if you open up that hole a little more, say 12" in the first picture and to the center line of the next joist in the second picture. You can then install blocking through the hole that will take the stress of the spring pole, then simply use the exposed joists to attach your patch.

If you want extra security on the "free" joint, you can put a backer stick along that joint that does not need to be attached to the framing. The free joint would be the one towards the center of the room without a joist over it. I would also tuck the other "free" joint on top of the drywall on the wall side.
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:23 pm

OK, so I went to my attic and was able to locate the hole in the ceiling. I mounted a 3/4 thick plywood to between two joists so in the future I don't have same problem again if using the organizer pole in the shower.
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When then installing the replacement piece of drywall the piece didn't want to sit levels due to one of the joists being little higher than the other. I wonder if that could be corrected with drywall mud? So in the end the replacement piece on the side of the corner is sitting little higher than the other one. The other side is leveled with the ceiling.
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Now, how should I fix this? Using paper tape? this plastic sticky tape since this is right above the shower? Can I use EasySand 90 to seal the joints? How long after taking care of the joints can I skim coated to level this corner up?

I was supposed to already prime and paint this dang bathroom and now this darn fix will kill my whole day. I'd like to do all the prep today so I can at least prime and paint tomorrow. Would using hot mud be OK to fix this? Thanks
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:37 pm

I would recommend reinstalling your plywood backer so that it is sitting flush with the back of the existing drywall, this will ensure that your patch piece fits properly, assuming it's the same thickness as the original drywall. If you don't do this, it will result in a whole lot more time mudding and floating to make the patch disappear.

You will have to paper tape the ceiling/wall joint, the entire patch is so small that I'd just use paper tape for the whole thing. If you reset the patch so that it's flush with the surface, you should be able to get it finished out in a couple hours using hot mud. If you leave it as is, the mud will be too thick to dry enough for paint.

How quickly can you apply each coat of mud? Depends on how thick it is applied and how fast it sets. Using hot mud, it will usually harden on you long before it dries, which means you can get several coats on in a short period of time, especially if using fans to circulate the air well.

How to tell if it's dry enough to paint, as the mud dries, it changes color, when you can no longer see a damp area it's probably dry enough to paint. I think you said that your mud has a dye in it that indicates dryness. Whatever you do, err to the side of caution and give it plenty of time for drying. I know you're eager to get it painted and be done with the project, but if there is still moisture present it can delaminate the paint, causing another mess that you're not going to want to have to deal with.
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:29 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:37 pm
I would recommend reinstalling your plywood backer so that it is sitting flush with the back of the existing drywall, this will ensure that your patch piece fits properly, assuming it's the same thickness as the original drywall. If you don't do this, it will result in a whole lot more time mudding and floating to make the patch disappear.

Thanks for this tip. I think the mistake I made was that I installed the top plywood piece before installing the drywall piece. After removing everything and realigning the plate now the drywall is finally leveled or slightly receded in maybe 1/16 of an inch. :idea:
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You will have to paper tape the ceiling/wall joint, the entire patch is so small that I'd just use paper tape for the whole thing. If you reset the patch so that it's flush with the surface, you should be able to get it finished out in a couple hours using hot mud. If you leave it as is, the mud will be too thick to dry enough for paint.

You mean tape the whole thing or just the joints? If the whole thing, then how do I run this tape one piece next to each other?


How to tell if it's dry enough to paint, as the mud dries, it changes color, when you can no longer see a damp area it's probably dry enough to paint. I think you said that your mud has a dye in it that indicates dryness. Whatever you do, err to the side of caution and give it plenty of time for drying. I know you're eager to get it painted and be done with the project, but if there is still moisture present it can delaminate the paint, causing another mess that you're not going to want to have to deal with.

Actually I returned the 'pink' stuff and went with the EasySand 90. For this corner I am thinking of using the EasySand 20 for faster drying time especially for such a small area.
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:48 pm

just tape the joints and do not overlap the tape at the corners. Run both sides first, then run the end pieces between the side pieces. If you overlap them you start adding thickness that then has to be floated out, making more of a lump and more difficult to make the patch be a seamless part of the ceiling.

Ok, using normal, non-color changing mud. Because you're using setting compounds they are dry mix, correct? Meaning, you've got a bag of powder that you add your own water to. Notice the color of the powder before and after you add water to it. Once mixed and applied, when it returns to the original "powder" color, you know it's dry. Fans speed up this process, so does a hair dryer, which is what I use on small patches like this so that I can get them done in one visit which means cost savings to client.
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:05 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:48 pm
just tape the joints and do not overlap the tape at the corners. Run both sides first, then run the end pieces between the side pieces. If you overlap them you start adding thickness that then has to be floated out, making more of a lump and more difficult to make the patch be a seamless part of the ceiling.

Ok, using normal, non-color changing mud. Because you're using setting compounds they are dry mix, correct? Meaning, you've got a bag of powder that you add your own water to. Notice the color of the powder before and after you add water to it. Once mixed and applied, when it returns to the original "powder" color, you know it's dry. Fans speed up this process, so does a hair dryer, which is what I use on small patches like this so that I can get them done in one visit which means cost savings to client.
Thanks for the tip on not overlapping the tape, I didn't know that :roll: Correct on the fast setting compound. Just came back from HD and got the 45 minutes one just in case. Let me do this. Thanks Spruce

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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:07 pm

You're welcome. 8-)
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:24 pm

So with every step I come across another problem with this bathroom of mine. It supposed to be just a simple repaint, and vanity update. While the first coat of mud is drying I started to preparing the wall for priming. I decided to take out the bottom wall moulding behind the toilet as it had its paint peeling all over, and I figured I'd maybe re-paint it. After pulling it out I found a mold allover the bottom part of the wall behind the toilet. Maybe a leak from the shower as my wife never closes the curtain allaway. It looks like only the outer drywall paper was effected so I just cut about 3 inches from the floor and now all I got is bear gipsum with some paper in several spots exposed. How do I go about it? Can I just slap a 4 inch moulding on top of it or what? The mold was very dry as this shower overspray was an issue few years ago but since I've installed a side guard splash and no more water on the floor. Or maybe cutting out the bottom part and replace it with a new piece of drywall, it's just way more work. The wall behind the toilet is a common wall.

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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:14 pm

Sounds like it's about time to remove the front door and build a new house! :P :mrgreen: ;)

If the paper has not delaminated from the gypsom, then there is no reason to replace it. Spray it down heavily with a bleach solution, let it dry, reinstall your baseboard, and be done with it.
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:33 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:14 pm
Sounds like it's about time to remove the front door and build a new house! :P :mrgreen: ;)

lol!!! It definitely feels like that today especially now when I am not even done enough to even take a shower for the night :shock: A good reason to hit the gym (gym's shower)

If the paper has not delaminated from the gypsom, then there is no reason to replace it. Spray it down heavily with a bleach solution, let it dry, reinstall your baseboard, and be done with it.

Too late for that. I already crubbed the effected paper of the gypsom. Can I just paint that area with GARDZ PEIMER and then just prime it with 123 BE and paint it couple of times?
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Also, there is a gap between the wall and the floor tiles so I was wondering if it would be good idea to fill that gap with silicone or foam spray to seal it in case of future water leak?
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:39 pm

I would float the bare gypsom with some of your mud, this will smooth out the transition between paper and no paper. Is this ideal, no, but if you don't want to patch the damaged area, this is about your only option.

I wouldn't fill the floor gap, what I would do is caulk the baseboard to the wall AND the floor so that water can't get in there.
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:51 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:39 pm
I would float the bare gypsom with some of your mud, this will smooth out the transition between paper and no paper. Is this ideal, no, but if you don't want to patch the damaged area, this is about your only option.

I wouldn't fill the floor gap, what I would do is caulk the baseboard to the wall AND the floor so that water can't get in there.

You mean like the silicone caulk? Also, to nail the baseboard to the wall and then caulk the top and the bottom of the baseboard or caulk the back of the baseboard directly to the wall?

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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:13 pm

You can caulk the base to the wall if you want, I prefer nails. I was referring to caulking the top edge of the baseboard to the wall and the bottom edge to the floor, thus, creating the seal of the gap that you're looking for. You would also caulk each end of the base to whatever it touches as well. Complete seal, no leaky.
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:15 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:13 pm
You can caulk the base to the wall if you want, I prefer nails. I was referring to caulking the top edge of the baseboard to the wall and the bottom edge to the floor, thus, creating the seal of the gap that you're looking for. You would also caulk each end of the base to whatever it touches as well. Complete seal, no leaky.
Got it . Thanks again :D

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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:16 pm

no problem. 8-)
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by DPFAST » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:28 am

Well, I am done with the mudding and painting for now thanks to you Spruce and Shannon, thanks for the tips. I couldn't do this without your very prompt answers to my questions. I was actually asking you for help while I was doing it :o . Well I still have to practice my 'cutting' but I have to tell you that without the hot mud I would still be working on it. The wait time between coats of mud or paint and primer was the most time consuming part of this task I didn't expect or was ready for, but the next time I will be :!: . To finish everything I actually worked last Monday 10am-midnight with couple of small brakes and Tuesday I put my first coat of paint at 2am Wednesday. Then I slept 4 hours, got up and put my second coat of paint Wednesday morning as I had to go to work that day. By the time I got back from work I was able to hang the shower curtain and the lights. Now I am ready to do the plumbing next week. Thanks again and we'll talk again next week. Have a great weekend guys :D
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Re: hole in the bathroom ceiling fix advice?

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:26 pm

Looking good! 8-)
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