Safety

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Bluesv6
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Safety

Post by Bluesv6 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:09 pm

I've been watching quite a few framing videos with plans to build a shed . I came across this guy and was like WOW !! What is safety ?


https://youtu.be/_MvsL-iDpss


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A. Spruce
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Re: Safety

Post by A. Spruce » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:55 pm

Bluesv6 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:09 pm
I've been watching quite a few framing videos with plans to build a shed . I came across this guy and was like WOW !! What is safety ?


https://youtu.be/_MvsL-iDpss
What you don't see is that he's got an extension cord wrapped around his waist that's bilay'd off to a few nails out of that fancy nail gun he's rocking there. Perfectly safe! :roll:

If OSHA walked onto that site, he'd probably be fined and fired on the spot. The reality is, that is the norm, especially when it comes to production framing, which is what that guy is doing. Wham-bam gimme my paycheck!
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Shannon
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Re: Safety

Post by Shannon » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:15 am

Yes I have to say in many cities that would be normal unless they were tipped off that safety guys were around.

I have to admit in all honesty when you are framing (residentially especially) IMO there is no real safe place to tie off in that case and if you did , it would be a tripping hazard as well.And the addition of that air hose is even worse in combination to a lanyard line. In most cases working at less then 10’ from the ground you are ok not tied off, in his case it was likey less then 10’ to the floor below him but was surely more then 10’ outside to the ground.
I’m not making excuses for this guy or the rest of us that have done this but I am saying it is very normal to walk walls with no safety lines. In fact for guys that do it everyday IMO at that height they are likely safer without additional tripping hazards.
What’s your take on what I have said Spruce?
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A. Spruce
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Re: Safety

Post by A. Spruce » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:54 am

I know for myself, I wouldn't do it, though like you said, for guys comfortable with heights and walking plates, what he was doing was no big deal.

The key to safety is to have some common sense and knowing your own limits. Common sense says, if you're not comfortable with heights or walking plates, you DON'T DO IT! Stupidity says, "hold my beer and watch this!"

Something everyone can relate to on this subject is using a ladder, some people literally are terrified of a step stool, others don't have a problem with a ladder of any height. Using this example, would it be safe for the first person to get on any ladder what-so-ever, or would it be a very stupid idea? Should we mandate that stabilizers legs, lanyards, safety cones, flashing warning beacons and spotters be required on ALL ladders just because of the few who don't know how or can't use one?

My contention has always been, safety starts and ends between your ears, no amount of regulation or safety equipment will make anything safer if the user is unable to work safely in their own right.

Now, back to the real world, was the guy in the video being unsafe, IMHO, not particularly, however, if he falls, the builder and property owner are liable, at least they would be here in the USA, hence why we tend to err to the side of caution and over regulation than making individuals responsible for themselves.
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Re: Safety

Post by DanM » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:04 pm

Shannon wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:15 am
I have to admit in all honesty when you are framing (residentially especially) IMO there is no real safe place to tie off in that case and if you did , it would be a tripping hazard as well.And the addition of that air hose is even worse in combination to a lanyard line.
This x1,000,000. We get in trouble from the safety rep all the time because he wants us tied off when we're doing floor joists, but it's basically impossible to do within reason. What do you tie off to? The point you're tying off to needs to be a certain distance above you to accommodate how much the lanyard expands + however much slack is in your rope. The lanyard's expand to 6-8ft usually, and our standard first storey walls are 9ft, so if I have more than 1-3ft of slack in the rope the safety harness + lanyard are doing nothing to arrest my fall, I'm gonna slam into the floor below. If anything they add safety risks. The rope is a tripping hazard for everyone, the rope + lanyard won't stop your fall but they could wrap around your neck when you fall and cause serious injuries.

Tying off is all well and good, and we do it whenever it's appropriate, but the only way to tie off while doing floor joists would be to hire a crane to sit there all day and tie off to it. A crane is $150-200 per hour, for 8 hours a day. Do homeowners want that added to the cost of the house? No. Can contractors realistically afford to pay that? No. Do homebuilder companies want to pay for that? No.

Realistically you have to just be smart, and make a good set of planks/platforms/scaffolds to work with. We're lucky enough that the homebuilder we do most of our work for has a lot of extra lumber and other stuff around the site to make that stuff with.

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Shannon
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Re: Safety

Post by Shannon » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:31 am

I was actually more alarmed at the measurements and instructions he was giving for layout the trusses and first ridge block. If he infact used the measurements he said that his rafters are all leaning out of plumb . Did you guys notice what he was saying and doing ?
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A. Spruce
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Re: Safety

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:35 am

I wasn't listening to the patter.
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Bluesv6
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Re: Safety

Post by Bluesv6 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:40 pm

It was crazy and i questioned some of the things he was doing i was wondering . However i am not a caroenter by trade .

As far as safety ,i agree with you Shannon with being unable to tie off properly .

I also find safety costs time and money and a mind set , that is the reality .

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A. Spruce
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Re: Safety

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:07 pm

Bluesv6 wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:40 pm
I also find safety costs time and money and a mind set , that is the reality .
Can you clarify this, before I jump to conclusions? :?: :geek:
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Bluesv6
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Re: Safety

Post by Bluesv6 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:01 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:07 pm
Bluesv6 wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:40 pm
I also find safety costs time and money and a mind set , that is the reality .
Can you clarify this, before I jump to conclusions? :?: :geek:
Sure I can, i will use my job as an example
Today i got some tires to do at work . I rolled my tires down to the tire machine . Changed my tires , the one tire woudnt seat the beads .
We have a bead blaster , a huge air cannon .That blasts a big blast of air to seat the tire on the rim . We only have to use this occasionally .

It is super loud , today i needed to use it . To use it i always try to have my ear plugs . Of course my earplugs werent on me . So i walk up to my tool box which i work in a large shop . Put the plugs in , cleaned them and put gel in to get the plugs in . Then walk back down to the tire machine . This took a few minutes . A few minutes is loss in productivity . Loss in productivity is loss of money . Loss of money and time , this is how safety costs money.one way .


Safety needs a mindset and needs to be a routine . For instance i could have had my earplugs clean at the am . I could have put them in or put them in my coceralls before going to the tire machine .
Or mindset of say taking the safety glasses off your head and use them for what there intended for :roll:

I hope i explained myslef and not rambling

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A. Spruce
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Re: Safety

Post by A. Spruce » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:18 pm

So you danced back and forth across the conclusion I had made about your statement.

Yes, being unprepared costs time and money.
Not having safety in the forefront of your mind ALSO costs time and money, in the short term, lost productivity, in the long term, bodily harm which leads to disability and the need for medical care to help mediate the problems caused by lack of having safety at the forefront of your mind.

Using your example, you work in a noisy environment, shouldn't you have your ear plugs on you all the time, whether you're wearing them or not? You mentioned safety glasses, do you normally wear them or use them as a head or toolbox decoration? Both of these items, while annoying, save you from injury, both immediate and long term, as in the case of hearing loss from prolonged exposure to a loud environment. Then, into the long term, when you can't hear well as you get older, you'll turn to doctors and hearing aids, both of which cost you time and money.

To be clear, I'm not picking on you here, merely using your example as the example. Safety IS a state of mind. One has to care about one's own well being and protect oneself because no amount of safety devices or regulation is going to save one from oneself, individuals will find a way to hurt themselves regardless.
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Shannon
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Re: Safety

Post by Shannon » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:56 am

Yes I have to say until starting this site and shooting the videos ,safety was not always my first thought (as far as the real basics, ear and eye) now I am very much more aware all the time of using my glasses and ear protection and having them on me for easy and quick access. I find if i don't, I take chances by not going to grab them.
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emtnut
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Re: Safety

Post by emtnut » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:31 pm

Last time Sprucy did some work in the rafters for me, he just said "Whatever you do, don't let go of my shoe !! " :mrgreen:
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A. Spruce
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Re: Safety

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:31 pm

emtnut wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:31 pm
Last time Sprucy did some work in the rafters for me, he just said "Whatever you do, don't let go of my shoe !! " :mrgreen:
But, you DID, and I learned a very valuable lesson that day . . . always tie your laces off to the rafter, don't let a buddy "help" ya! :mrgreen:
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Bluesv6
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Re: Safety

Post by Bluesv6 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:08 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:18 pm

To be clear, I'm not picking on you here, merely using your example as the example. Safety IS a state of mind. One has to care about one's own well being and protect oneself because no amount of safety devices or regulation is going to save one from oneself, individuals will find a way to hurt themselves regardless.
Sorry for the late reply , i am not trying to beat a dead horse :roll:
Simply put i need to be more conscious about safety and sure some others as well .

Safety takes mindaet , planning or simply just thinking about it . I am aware you are not pickikng on me but sharing your thoughts and that is fine .

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A. Spruce
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Re: Safety

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 pm

So, when you gonna be more mindful of safety? <super big wink> :mrgreen:
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Bluesv6
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Re: Safety

Post by Bluesv6 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:36 pm

A. Spruce wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 pm
So, when you gonna be more mindful of safety? <super big wink> :mrgreen:
Today already ! I have a bad habbit of using safety glasses on one job and take them off and put them on my head so i coukd take a closer look . Then forget to put them on to finish the job .

Today i cleaned my glasses well and kept them on for the whole job :D

Its thinking and making the effort

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Shannon
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Re: Safety

Post by Shannon » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:09 pm

Bluesv6 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:36 pm
A. Spruce wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 pm
So, when you gonna be more mindful of safety? <super big wink> :mrgreen:
Today already ! I have a bad habbit of using safety glasses on one job and take them off and put them on my head so i coukd take a closer look . Then forget to put them on to finish the job .

Today i cleaned my glasses well and kept them on for the whole job :D

Its thinking and making the effort

It absolutely takes a conscious effort to gain new good safety practices and break old bad habits. Believe me I know from experience
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A. Spruce
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Re: Safety

Post by A. Spruce » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:30 pm

Bluesv6 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:36 pm
A. Spruce wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 pm
So, when you gonna be more mindful of safety? <super big wink> :mrgreen:
Today already ! I have a bad habbit of using safety glasses on one job and take them off and put them on my head so i coukd take a closer look . Then forget to put them on to finish the job .

Today i cleaned my glasses well and kept them on for the whole job :D

Its thinking and making the effort
That is awesome! 8-)

These days, I don't do anything without eye and ear protection, and I'm usually wearing mechanix gloves too. Admittedly, in my younger years I wasn't as eager on eye protection as I am now. I've always carried/used ear protection. The gloves are a result of not having the callused hands that I did in my youth and really not liking the random pokes, stabs, and splinters one can get without the use of gloves. I really like these mechanix gloves because you still have tactile use of your hands without the high risk of splinters and wounds. Back in my day, heavy leather gloves were all that were available, so you had to pick and choose your battles when you wore them. With the light gloves of today, it's easy to have them on all the time for nearly everything.
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